Podcast S1:E5 - Customer Care Made Easy with Shannon Baker
You can connect with the amazing Shannon over on Instagram, Facebook, or on her website!
Show notes:
Ellie: Today we have another brilliant business woman that I've made a connection with over on Instagram. Her name is Shannon Baker and Shannon is a podcaster and business systems coach who helps busy women with service-based businesses, create systems to automate the time consuming tasks required to run a business so they can work more efficiently. And have more time for what matters most. Shannon hosts the podcast, The More Than Capable Mompreneur, which has been listed in the top 202 categories on Apple podcast s. In her episodes, Shannon shares, tips, strategies, and conducts interviews to help busy women be more productive and to use the mom cracks of time to get more things done so they can find a balance that works for them without the mom guilt. They can invest time in themselves and grow their businesses without burning out.
So today we have Shannon Baker with us. Welcome Shannon!
Shannon: Hello. Thank you for having me on.
Ellie: I'm so excited. I know you have a lot of really good information to share with us today about customer care processes, but first I want to get into our rapid fire round. Tell us where you're from.
Shannon: Okay so I live in upper Marlboro, Maryland, which is surprisingly strategically located. It's 20 minutes from DC and 20 minutes from Virginia.
Ellie: Oh, that's handy. I've never spent much time on the East coast to be honest. I don't know how I'd feel about the humidity. I think that's probably my biggest fear about the East coast, a West coast person now living in Ireland, somehow afraid of humidity, but it's a different humidity here. It's never warm.
Shannon: Oh, definitely much different.
Ellie: What are your preferred pronouns?
Shannon: She/her. That works for me.
Ellie: Awesome. And when did you start your business?
Shannon: I started my business eight years ago. I shall be nine years next year. So in 2012.
Ellie: That's so cool. That's cool. Just sorry. Cause mine's only three years old. It's really cool to see like the longevity of entrepreneurship sometimes.
Shannon: Yeah.
Ellie: What do you love about your business?
Shannon: I love that I get to make the decision, so I have basically total control over whatever it does. The sky's the limit.
Ellie: I think that's why a lot of people start entrepreneurship. It is so nice when it really works. Cause I think a lot of times people get stuck in some of the nitty gritty of entrepreneurship. And so when you can make it really work for you is such a blessing, right?
Shannon: Yes, it is. The key is to, create your business to give you the flexibility that you want so that you're not enslaved to your business after leaving a job.
Ellie: Yeah. Definitely building your business around your life. Yeah. So what simple systems are you using to do business with ease?
Shannon: So my top three.
My online schedule or my scheduling system, because it has the boundaries around my schedule because I only take calls on certain days and in certain time blocks. And that is it.
My file management system makes it easy for me to find everything that I need. And it's integrated into all of my systems on multiple levels, which saves me time.
And then my communication system, because that works well so that I can track leads, nurture relationships, which grows my business intern.
Ellie: That's really cool. Yeah, I would be obsessed with my time scheduler too. I love using that and I think some people think I'm a little weird when someone's like, I'd love to do a virtual zoom call with you and an Instagram message and I'm like, sure, here's my link.
Sometimes I would seem a little weird, but you're right. It helps to preserve those boundaries. And they're really important.
Shannon: Yes, it makes a huge difference because otherwise it will break up your day if you're taking calls all times of the day, as you mentioned, so you have to stay in the zone. So I always, I'm a big proponent of specific days and specific times as much as possible.
Ellie: Yes. Time-blocking, it's something that I do my best at. I can't say I'm always the greatest at it, but I do try.
Shannon: Yay!
Ellie: So you are an expert in things like customer care and customer processes and making your customer feel like they're so taken care of and supported in such a way that they're never going to really want to leave.
I think that I found that out the hard way when I was starting my business is that people loved the service I was providing for them. And right before I was looking to go full time, I hosted a dinner party at my house for the sole purpose of doing some market research.
And what I found was that all of my clients really felt like they wanted more handholding, essentially. I had gone into, at the time, virtual assistance, assuming that people knew what they wanted and the truth was that at least in my demographic, they had no idea.
I was working with solo entrepreneurs. Most of them had never worked with a virtual assistant before. And so they wanted someone to walk them step by step through things. And these days I have a really good, client onboarding system for my website business. And there is like a five day email sequence.
That's here's your contract. Here's what you can expect for me. Here's what I expect from you. Here's your questionnaire to make sure I get your website just right. Here's how you book calls with me, et cetera. And it's all lovely and packaged up and digestible for them. But it wasn't always that way, because I just assumed that everybody would know how to collaborate.
Shannon: Okay. Yeah. And I understand, and that you mentioned is just one piece. So in my world that I've created customer care. When I use that term starts from that first point that they make contact with you. That can be sending you a message on social media. Submitting their information through your website, signing up for your download, or Facebook, wherever that contact is, that's the first point of contact.
And if you didn't know, I'm a Trekkie fan. So that always pops into my mind when I say that. But anyhow, I digress. But what you do from that point forward, really determines whether or not they're going to convert to be a client and all people that contact you are not going to be a potential client, but they're a potential resource for you to get a client because they'll refer you.
So customer care. When I use that term refers to anyone that reaches out to contact you online. It's all about nurturing those relationships. If they convert to a client, then as you say, you need that onboarding process because that gives them the framework for how you work. But the relationship still has to be developed even beyond signing the paperwork in getting you paid.
There's incremental check-ins that you need one, being a former virtual assistant as well, that you should have regular check-in calls with your clients. Those are the things that keep them emotionally charged. They know that you're working, it keeps them in touch because it's scary to really let go of part of your business and let someone else handle it.
But when you go that extra mile and invest in those 15 minute weekly check-in calls, it's amazing how it helps develop that relationship to where they're like, "okay, I know you're doing what I'm paying you to do, so I don't need a lot of information. You're telling me what's game being done. You're telling me the roadblocks that are coming up. Okay. I feel really great."
So it's that little tender, loving care that a lot of people don't do that makes a difference, but it makes them feel really loved. And this goes one of two ways. They either love you to the point that they are singing praises to everyone that they know, and they'll refer you or there'll be selfish and they won't want to share you because you're so great.
Ellie: Yeah. I've definitely had both those experiences. The fact is that when you're doing all of that, not only is it amazing customer service, but that amazing customer service really sets you apart as well. You're going to be really different than most of your competition if you're spending so much time in a way that really serves your clients. I really loved the book, The Pumpkin Plan. It really focuses on the idea of picking your best clients, your favorite clients, the type of work you love doing and going a little bit further for those people, because that means that in turn, you will reap more of those clients.
And so it is really important and you're right. It does come back all the way to the very beginning from when they first talked to you, I do try and be really friendly on my Instagram messages, even if I've never heard of them, respond to it pretty much everybody. When somebody downloads one of my freebies on my website, they get a three parts, I think, welcome sequence that kind of onboards them into my world. And then I find that my unsubscribe rate is really low because people know what they're getting from me. And they know how often do expect hearing from me and those kinds of things. So you're right. It is like a whole round world thing
Shannon: It is. And a lot of people say, "Oh, responding to all these messages, it takes too much time." But again, you can put different things in place to save you time. One of the things that you can create is response templates. Instagram has a built in. Quick, DM feature, a quick response feature that you can put your response template in there.
Just add a little customization, which is put the person's name in the message, because they're a person and it's personal. Won't take you a lot of time to just insert that message, to respond to them and really just chat with them. And, DMs, I have the best conversations just in DMs that lead to so many different things that have benefited my business.
And I'm using a template for a lot of the things that are happening, whether it's a coffee chat. Someone asked me about my services is for them to just go ahead and schedule that quick 15 minute call with me so we can chat. It. Doesn't take me that much time. And I spend 30 to 45 minutes on Instagram every day. That's it.
Ellie: Yeah, absolutely. And I think as most of my audience will know, I love templates. I have email templates. I have templates for my client onboarding. I have templates for everything I do. And I think so many people get hung up on templates being impersonal. But the thing is nobody knows most of your people that you've sent that same message to aren't talking to look at this message.
Nobody knows. And I even have found that in parts of my business that I send templates, like when I was a virtual assistant, I sent out weekly updates, where people are at on their packages and nobody cares that they got the same email every single week. Like it didn't change except for the numbers.
And nobody cared. So I think you're right. It's so important to say, take the steps to save your time.
Shannon: Yeah, it does. And then the thing with customer care. Most people don't realize that, especially with, because of technology, people are respecting a response within an hour. It's just something that we've set in our minds.
And everyone, I knew this myself, I sent a message to somebody and then I literally stalked my, DM messages to see if someone's replied. We all do the same thing. Having that template there helps you to be able to respond quickly. And as you mentioned, that is what sets you apart from everyone else that's in your industry, because in their mind, they're like, "Oh great. They respond pretty quickly!"
And as you say, if you're using the template, they won't know if you insert their name. If you customize one sentence to say something that, because you look at their profile before you sent your response message, That makes the person feel like there's a personal connection between the two of you, and then they're more inclined to continue to consume your content until they're ready to pull the trigger and either make the investment for your services or they'll start recommending you as other people are start looking for the type of service that you offer.
Ellie: Yes, absolutely. I'm a big proponent of putting boundaries in place as often as you can. So I, for the most part, try to set those windows that this is when I'm on social media. This is when I'm emailing. And so I try and set an expectation with my audience and my customers and everybody else.
That I don't typically respond to anybody immediately. Even my friends and family, like I don't text you back immediately. And my phone is on silent and no vibration, no notifications on all the time. So people have come to just know that's who I am. I will get back to you and I will send you a thoughtful message, but it's not coming probably anytime soon.
and I think that, that still somehow works for me. Maybe because I have trained people that I will get back to you. It's not happening immediately, but I will for sure will.
Shannon: Yeah. And that, as you said, it everyone's different in what boundaries they need up set up in their lives.
The thing that we all have to keep in mind with social media is no, you don't have to be chained to your phone. To respond to messages, but it shouldn't take you so long to respond to someone's message that they forget why they messaged you in the first place. If that's the case, then you have totally dropped the ball on your customer service.
Really the average person is expecting a response within 24 to 48 hours. I think that's a reasonable window. I'm the same. I check my Instagram as specific times in specific increments throughout the day, whatever comes in after the last time I've been on social media, it waits until the next time I'm checking the next day.
And I have a specific 10 to 15 minute window where I'm responding to messages or responding to comments. And the same with my emails. You either, if I get some email at the end of the day, In my period in the morning, when I'm checking and responding to emails, then you'll get a response. So you set the expectation.
And while I may be typing up my email responses at 10 o'clock at night. You're not going to get it until 10 o'clock the next day, because I've scheduled the response at my usual window that I'm responding to messages. So there are a totally, convenient automation ways to get things out. But within those boundaries in it still holds up your end of that customer care part.
Ellie: Yes, absolutely. When I was a virtual assistant, I got a lot more emails than I do now. Which is a big perk of me switching over my business model. But, when I had that, I actually would use Boomerang to turn off my inbox, at say six o'clock or whatever, because I didn't want to let myself, I'm the type of person that if I see an email, I feel like I need to do something about it.
So it's a more of a me boundary than anyone else boundary. But now that I have less emails, I do find it a little bit easier to just collapse the like sections. Cause I have my inbox sectioned off into categories. But you're right, if I do respond or feel like it because I'm that type of person that like has to respond to certain things, so that I can get it off my mental plate.
I also schedule out emails. So you won't be getting it until the next morning and that's so that I can keep enforcing those boundaries so that when I'm in my slightly better personal boundary space and not actually checking my inbox at night, then I haven't set up an expectation with my clients that they think that I will be.
Shannon: Exactly. And that's the key, as you said, not only do you need external boundaries, but you've got to discipline yourself to stick to your boundaries that's the hardest. It's easy to put a boundary in place. It's not always easy to stick to it. So you definitely have to train yourself to stick to the boundaries, especially once you communicate them.
Because once you step outside of that box, it only takes one time for a client to say, "Oh, I thought she didn't respond to messages after 6:00 PM, but I got a message, email response, or a DM response from her at 8:00 PM." Oh, you just set yourself up because they're going to keep coming to you, but then you have to retrain them all over again to get back into your boundaries.
But basically, you set yourself up that way. So self-discipline is definitely required.
Ellie: Yeah, definitely. and I know we've touched on a couple already, but if you were going to give someone a couple of steps that we can all take to improve our customer care experience, is there a couple of things that really just stick out at the top for you?
Shannon: Use templates. Start with what messages do you find yourself sending repeatedly. Those are those frequently asked questions. How can I work with you? How do I schedule a call with you? All those types of things create a simple template response that you can copy, customize, paste and send that's one of those two minutes, get it off your plate tasks.
Always say, if you can do something in two minutes or less, when you see it. Take care of it. That way it's done. Templates help you do that. That way you can respond quickly, which is key.
Number two, you need to respond within 24 to 48 hours so that you stay front of mind to someone who was interested enough to reach out to you. That just shows you the interest. You don't want it to cool off.
Then step three, definitely make sure you follow up. So even if you send the response and you don't hear anything back from them. Have a tracking process in place so that you can give them a couple of days, but then reach back out. "It's been a few days since, you first sent the message and this is the information I sent. I just wanted to follow up and make sure you don't have any other questions or whatever the case may be."
Those three things right there. Will just leave such a good impression with them that they'll be like, "Oh yeah, I definitely want to stay in touch with this person. And I can't wait so I can work with them."
Ellie: Yes. I think
Shannon: the follow up one, especially.
Ellie: Cause all the others are important, but we've touched on them already. So the follow-up one is something that I think people can feel a little embarrassed about. Almost like people feel like they're burdening somebody by re touching base, but you have to remember, this person has asked to be in contact with you, they want to hear from you. And people get busy and this has been a year from hell. So following up is probably very appreciated.
Especially say my clientele, for example, my clients tend to be moms. They tend to be solo entrepreneurs, so they're busy as hell. And so following up when maybe they've missed something, because they were in the middle of the school run or their kid had a tantrum or whatever, they have the chance to circle back to it when they get a minute.
Shannon: Definitely. And like the system that I have in place. Anyone who follows me online and Ellie, I know you've seen this. I use Trello. That's like my manage everything. It's everything for me without Trello, I would probably be lost. In Trello I have a simple tracking system. My customer journey is outlined into lists as I a new a person contacts me a card is automatically created in my system and I just moved them along. And one of those lists in my Trello board is follow up, which lets me know, I need to follow up with them. And I put in the due date. So that Trello kicks me a reminder because I'll also forget.
Believe me, I'm not doing all this stuff like on a whim. And while I am, a time-blocking calendar guru, my mind does get filled up too. And then life happens. Perfect example. Someone submitted their information to me via email, to be on the podcast. And generally our respondents say, please submit the application for your podcast requests.
If you want to be a guest, which reminds me that I need to set up automation for when those emails come to me. So hence why you need processes in place. But anyway, I forgot. I looked at the email and I didn't respond because of course I read it outside of my window of when I respond to emails and was like, "Oh, I'm going to follow up with this person."
I had a death in the family that wiped the book. I totally forgot about that request. But a week later, I got an email. "Hey, I don't want to bother you, but I'm just following up on the email that I previously sent and it's below." I forgot about it, but that reminded me. Let me go ahead and respond to this person and let them know what the next step is that I want to take with them.
So just following up, like you said, it's not a burden, but things happen and people forget. If you want to grow your business, show that care by just following up with the person. It doesn't mean that you're asking them for a sale. You're just reminding them, "Hey, I reached out or I responded just wanted to see what was happening on your end."
Ellie: Definitely. I think that's really important. So the three steps are templates. Respond promptly. within your boundaries and follow up.
Shannon: Yeah. That's all. Yes, those are definitely key.
Ellie: And so how do these customer care processes make a difference for small businesses?
Shannon: Because the way you handled dealing with the new contact in the beginning gives them a look into the inner workings of your business. Just remember if your response is helter-skelter from the beginning and you drop the ball.
It's going to leave the impression with them that they may not want to work with you because you might drop the ball even after they paid you for services as well. So how you deal with them before any money is exchanged, gives them a feel of whether or not you're going to handle your business properly after the fact.
You definitely don't want to undermine that confidence before you even get a chance to show what you can really do for a person.
Ellie: Yes, absolutely. You don't want to ever come off as flaky. And you want to feel like you are a solid ground for that person to put their business in their trust.
Shannon: Exactly. And that's key, especially if you want referrals, they'll send you praises and it's free marketing, but you have to do it right in order for that to happen.
Ellie: Absolutely. My entire business has been referral based almost. A few people have found me on Instagram or whatever, but almost all of my clients have come based on referrals or my email marketing and those kinds of things.
But a lot of those people have come to my email list from a referral.
Shannon: Yep, referrals!
Ellie: So good. So good. So is there anything else that you feel like you want to talk about on the topic of customer processes?
Shannon: Really that's it in a nutshell focus on serving, that alleviates the pressure that a lot of people feel I don't want to be icky or come across as salesy.
Then don't focus on sales, focus on serving. The more you can serve a customer. And I don't mean get opened up the doors to the kingdom and give them everything that you do, but give them enough to make them feel comfortable that, That you're an expert in your field. Your customer care is a way to do that.
And even staying in contact with them, you can send them solutions. If you come across a blog post that this person is struggling with this certain thing, whether it's yours or someone else's, they appreciate that. They'll appreciate you and in turn they will come to you or see you as an influencer in their life. True influencer, meaning that they'll buy into whatever you start launching and you won't have to pitch.
There's nothing like getting a loyal fan who you don't have to pitch to them when you launch something new, they just say, "okay, I need that". But it takes that customer care process and that one-on-one nurturing of that relationship for you to really get to that point in a person's life.
Ellie: Yes. Yes. I think that having those true blue fans are so important and sometimes it takes a while because you do have to spend that time nurturing, but it could makes like a world of difference in your business.
So we've talked a lot today about customer care, especially at the beginning of the customer journey. We've touched a little bit on what it looks like when you have a customer when you're onboarding and like customers that you currently have.
I'd like to talk a little more about say off-boarding or ending a customer journey, how that kind of looks, for you.
Shannon: One you say, "Thank you! While our time is coming to an end. I appreciate you give a couple of reasons". Hint, you can create a template and then customize it as needed. And then just make note of things. Again, keeping them in mind. If they've moved beyond your services, you can still stay in touch with them online on social media, commenting, leaving meaningful comments on their posts, things like that, but you can also still refer blog posts, whatever the case. It stays the same to continue to assist them in their growth. It's all about building and nurturing those relationships.
Even if they're not paying you because you never know when they may need to come back, or you never know who they're going to meet, that they can refer back to you because they'll say, "Oh, she is great, I worked with her over a year ago." That happens to me. All the time, like you said, through referrals. My business is sustained by referrals. So send that thank you. It can be a simple handwritten card. It's a personal touch in the times that we live in. Most people don't send mail. I send note cards for everything and it just makes a difference.
Make sure that you close the loop by giving them a summation of all the things that you've accomplished together, because they may not remember. And they can look back over that and say, "Oh wow. I was in really bad shape before I worked with her. But look where I'm at now."
So that gives them those personal wins and it builds the value in the service that you offer to them. And again, just focus on continuing that relationship from that point.
Ellie: Yes. I think that also that summary can also be a really good leverage point to the next step in my process, which is asking for a testimonial. And when you ask for that testimonial, if you've said, this is all the cool stuff we've done together, it really can help them to like, be like, "Oh yeah!"
I also personally like to incentivize my testimonials. Most of my clients would give me one without any type of incentive at all, but I get them back faster.
And cause, that's a little thing and they're like, "Oh, I've paid them it's to the bottom of my list." And so if I say, "Okay, I'm going to give you a voucher for some free chocolate, to one of my favorite local businesses" then I get that testimonial back pretty damn quick. And it can then go on my website with my portfolio and it can go on my social media and help me bring in extra clients.
So I think that is another really key step. I think a lot of people get really nervous around asking for testimonials and I have a template. I can't get nervous about it. Sometimes, I actually I will have my assistant send off that template. So it's not even me asking. I don't have to think about it. I just say this person gets it. This person gets it. This person gets it. And all of those are sent off.
Shannon: You can do other little things, put a reminder on your calendar a year from the day you all started working together. If they're a coffee drinker, send them a $5 Starbucks gift card or whatever it is that they love, just send them, it doesn't have to be anything major, just something small.
It's like getting a thinking of you card in the mail that leaves everybody likes to get stuff. So that just leaves that lasting impression, but keeps you front of mind for them as they're in different conversations with people, they'll recommend you and continue to refer you out.
Ellie: Yes. And I think the other point you mentioned about on social media, because you've taken the time to develop that relationship while they were a client. It's just so easy to be that person's cheerleader in their business continually through comments and DMs and celebrating their wins.
And that is another way they're like, "Oh yeah, that person helped me in my business and look where I am at now.
It's so good to hear from them." And, it can mean a lot.
Shannon: Yes. It makes a big difference.
Ellie: So now let's go back to your business. What would you say is your biggest wins so far?
Shannon: Launching my podcast has opened up so many doors for my business, which I launched in April of this year, despite all that has gone on and I've gotten amazing results.
I'm getting speaking engagements, I've been on multiple virtual summits. I've got invitations coming in for virtual summits for next year, being a guest on other people's podcasts. So it's just open up the door to expand my community. It helped me make new connections, which in turn helps my business to grow.
So that has literally been the biggest win because. I don't have to pitch myself. It's because of the podcast that people are automatically coming to me, because again, I serve through my podcast episodes, so they see the value and they've reached out to me. We'd love for you to speak to our group because I love this episode, or I love that you talk about this or that, and that will resonate with my audience.
So that has been a big win for me this year.
Ellie: Yeah. I think that the magic of podcasts is the opportunity to serve, combined with the authority they somehow give you. It's similar to a blog except for people can hear your voice. So that somehow builds a lot more of that know, like, trust factor in a much faster way.
Shannon: Absolutely. And the voice makes a different connection. Because you're talking to them. So they feel and I know this is how I felt listening to podcasts. You feel like you have a one-on-one connection with the person because you listened to their voice.
You're answering their questions as your listening to their voice. So then when you start talking to them online, you feel like you already know them and you've known them for years. So it's a deeper connection than when you read someone's words on a blog. So it's, I love it. It's amazing.
Ellie: It is. It's so good. I'm only just getting started. I have a lot to learn, but I'm liking it so far.
And what would you say your biggest mistake or learning experience has been so far in your business?
Shannon: Not having boundaries. That hands down, has been the biggest one. And even once you set boundaries to keep, make yourself stick to the boundaries, because we start our business businesses to support our life, the boundaries, keep the business from taking over our life and sucking the happiness out of it.
That I learned the hard way.
Ellie: Yes. Boundaries are your biggest friend to stop burnout, right? If you can actually take time away from your business to rest. And that's the hardest thing, I think it's really hard as entrepreneurs because genuinely we love what we do, So it's so hard sometimes to be like, okay, I'm going to stop now.
Even though I love this thing, because it's going to serve me better in the long run, I'm going to put some boundaries, some time restrictions, some communication restrictions, some rest periods, and those types of things in place. But it is so important. I don't think there's anything more important than business other than boundaries and serving, right? Those are like the most. Important things.
Shannon: Exactly.
Ellie: Definitely. So tell us, is there anything else that you want to add?
Shannon: No, we've covered a big gambit!
Ellie: *Laughing*
Yes we have, I just wanted to give you the opportunity.
Where can people find you?
Shannon: So of course I'm on Instagram, which is where we met.
Ellie: Yes!
Shannon: I am @The_ShannonBaker, if I'm not on Instagram, I'm hanging out on Facebook, either on my Facebook page, which is The Shannon Baker or in my Facebook group, which has the same name as my podcast. The More Than Capable Mompreneur.
Ellie: Fantastic. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's been a really fun because you and I have so much of the same, like geeky system side, like we both get really excited about these things and it's always fun to meet other people that are a little weird that way with me.
