Website Words: Crafting Compelling Copy with Emma Greer
Ellie sits down with Emma Greer, a talented copywriter and content writer hailing from Northern Ireland and now based in Glasgow, Scotland. Emma shared her expertise in creating captivating website copy that leaves a lasting impression.
As a skilled copywriter, Emma understands the power of words in conveying the personality, values, and unique offerings of service providers. Through her website copywriting, blog writing, and article writing services, she helps businesses make a splash with every word they use to promote their brand. By attracting their dream clients through compelling and engaging content, Emma's clients are able to showcase their true essence and stand out in the competitive online landscape.
During this discussion, Ellie and Emma dive into the secrets of crafting persuasive and impactful copy for websites and explore strategies to infuse personality into your words while maintaining a strong focus on the needs and desires of the target audience.
Transcript below!
You can connect with Emma here:
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0:00
Unlocking website success series I am here today with Emma and I'm very very
0:06
excited for this conversation um funny enough it's just the way it worked out that this conversation ended up very near to the end of the series
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and in my head I'd always imagined it right at the start but I think it sort of works out this way too because this
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is one of the most important pieces like there's so all the things we've talked about in this series from
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um your like images to video to um
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SEO to like so many pieces you know advertising marketing and next week
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we're talking about email marketing and how that plays into driving traffic back to your website and all those pieces are
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so important there but the only ones in my opinion that are absolutely necessary
0:51
at the start are copy and images right those are like you can't have a website without them
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right and all the other pieces are gravy um so this is not a conversation I'm
1:05
really really looking forward to having uh thank you so much Emma for bringing your expertise to this series
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um why don't you tell everyone a little Adventure thanks so much for having me
1:18
thank you
1:23
oh I think we've lost Emma um because her little bar here on my
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screen has a little a little internet down um so I'll give you a summary of the
1:35
general oh are you back oh it kind of keeps popping in and out and I can see on your internet down here it
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shows that your internet connection is a little bit spotty if there's anything I can do I'll just
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I'll disconnect a couple of things just to make sure that there's nothing else okay just drop thing and I'll just give
1:55
a little bit of an intro to kind of me and the business that I'm in and what kind of led me to to where I am just now
2:02
um so my name is Emma I'm a copywriter my business is called magnetic copy I primarily work with service providers
2:08
and to do personality driven copy which I know we're going to get into a little bit later Ellie because I know that's something you love to talk to your
2:14
clients about as well really helping people get the essence of themselves and the value they have to offer across
2:20
because then that way they can hit the right people with their message in and I've always kind of been in this space I
2:27
actually celebrated two years in business last week so I'm still pretty new to being self-employed but it also
2:33
feels like I've been doing this forever I can't imagine doing anything else anymore um but I was always in copy and content
2:41
and primarily in the travel industry whenever I did my history degree I kind of did it because I didn't know well
2:46
also wanted to do with my life and then I fell into marketing by accident like I think a lot of people do just through various kind of extracurriculars and
2:52
stuff at Uni and from there I got internships and jobs in travel tourism hospitality and was in social media
3:01
first um which was enough to make me realize that I did not want to do that as a job I think people I could do are amazing
3:07
but it is just so not for me it's just to short form and reactive I think for the
3:12
way that I work and and the way that I write but I then got a job as a copywriter for a big travel agency
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um in Scotland which is where I'm based and so that was constantly switching between ton of voices and brand
3:25
guidelines and and different messaging and putting out different pieces to fulfill these different campaign
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objectives and it was a total baptism of fire but it really taught me how to adjust in between these different voices
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um from there kind of moved into more General marketing work and still freelanced on the side a lot and then
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was kind of just coasting along as I think a lot of people end up doing in their jobs and then pandemic happened
3:50
and all of a sudden the industry had been working in for five years disappeared overnight there was no more
3:56
travel the world shut down nobody could do anything or go anywhere and it kind of gave me the space to think huh I
4:02
don't think I want to do this anymore I think I want to do something else and the freelancing really picked up during
4:08
covet I was doing a lot of freelance writing work and there'd always been a voice in the back of my head I think
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like a lot of us have saying you should write for yourself you should start your own business and and write for your own clients and the voice just kept getting
4:21
lighter and lighter and lighter and then eventually I just hit a point in 2021 where I thought that myth of security from a full-time
4:28
job has been smashed for me in the last year because I didn't have any it was just so up and down for such a long time
4:34
incredibly stressful and anxiety and just saying and I thought I can create the security by doing this
4:41
for myself and and it's definitely I don't know if it's the same really but it's a much better fit for my personality than being an employee ever
4:47
was is actually just being in charge of everything and it being on me whether it works or not
4:53
um so I just decided gotta go hand in my notice and just took the plunge in and and hit the ground running and touchwood
5:00
it's all been going very well since then and I'm absolutely loving every minute of it I love that
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um funny enough I think I was actually a really good employee um I was but I think it's because of the
5:11
companies I worked in I never worked for a big company I always worked for really small companies which meant I wore a lot
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of hats I was given a lot of responsibility and and once people saw who I was how organized proactive all
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those things like I got a job when I moved here to Northern Ireland and it was a very very small law firm and they
5:32
hired me as a receptionist and by the time I left the place not even two years later I had a I was fire marshal
5:38
receptionist social media manager event planner and I was not the reception I was I was a legal secretary like I was
5:44
doing so data Protection Officer like everything yeah
5:49
um like I yes I've been lucky in those types of roles um
5:54
but we're here to talk about websites and copy so can you start us off just in
6:01
the real basics for somebody who's maybe not create done written a website or for
6:07
somebody who maybe doesn't have one yet or had somebody else do theirs and they kind of haven't looked at it
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um tell us a little bit about like the core and the basics of web copy and what makes it different sure and I think
6:19
that's a big question is what's the difference between copy and content right that comes up all the time is it
6:24
okay you can write but what's the difference between the two and to me copy is about selling that's kind of the
6:32
point of it that's the point of of the website right it needs to reflect what you do what your values are the USPS
6:39
that you offer to your target audience and then give them something to do to actually get them to get in touch
6:45
because you can have the most beautifully written story in the world but if there's no action to take at the end of it and there's no kind of Point
6:52
as to what it means for the reader no one's going to do anything with it and I
6:57
think that's definitely a trap that people can fall into so copy at its very basic function to me is writing words
7:05
that sell to the right people and in doing that you have to make sure that it's about them you have to be
7:11
constantly thinking about your reader the whole time you're writing and I think sometimes whenever people are very
7:18
kind of ingrained in the day-to-day of what they're doing they can look at it a little bit too much from their own
7:24
perspective as a business owner's perspective or as a business perspective and that isn't ever really going to work
7:30
and I know that design plays such a huge part in that as well because it always has to be with the user's perspective in
7:37
mind so copy to me is words that sell to the right people right and there's so much that you've
7:43
just said there that I want to like pick apart um the whole thing about
7:49
um your personality that we've touched on I really want to touch on um what you're saying about making sure
7:54
your users in mind the whole time um because that's something you're right and then calls to action like
8:00
um which are so so important so let's talk about there's so many pieces in this that I
8:06
think are just going to come together naturally the more we talk um without having to formula like make it a formula so much but I think one of
8:14
the things that people often do is they focus on all the benefits of
8:21
their product they say pretty much say this is what my product is it has all these things included or either service or whatever
8:28
um it's you know here's the deliverables essentially and people don't care about the
8:34
deliverables they care about the transformation what it's going to get for them what all
8:39
those deliverables are going to help them achieve yeah absolutely I always talk to clients about it because it's
8:45
it's so kind of you're right people focus on features so much they say you know what does this this and this but
8:51
people care about an outcome as you've said people care about the transformation that is going to be
8:57
caused in their life by engaging with this product or service you know it's like the the classic kind of iPod
9:04
version of this right it's you know the the number of songs in your pocket type thing rather than the amount of memory
9:09
that it's got It's an actual like you need to create something tangible that people can really understand and apply
9:15
to their own lives because that's how you're gonna get the right people into your business
9:21
yeah and I think that's another thing you keep saying is the right people I think a lot of people
9:27
forget that your business isn't just meant to attract the right people it's also meant to repel the wrong people and
9:34
I think the reason I love I talk about your website needing to be your home base for your message and all these
9:40
things like there's so many things we've talked about blogging and podcasting in this series and they're also important
9:45
for for various reasons showing your expertise is probably the most important of them all that for all those things
9:51
but your website like is meant to be the home base of all of your message your
9:58
message should should be ex from your website extrapolated to all these other things
10:04
and your web your website when done well your copy when done well should invite
10:10
the right people and tell the wrong people hey you're not in the right place or maybe it's not the right time 100 100
10:18
and it's why with any client I work with and I'm sure you do something similar I
10:23
really before I start writing anything I really need to help them drill down exactly who it is they're trying to
10:29
speak to because so much of the time it can be quite a loose kind of per like group of people and and
10:37
it's not I I always try to get people to think about things more holistically as well so it's less about kind of
10:43
straight up and down boxes of of demographics and ages and and that kind of thing and it's much more about where
10:49
are they in their lives what do they need what can you provide and what does that mean and I think whenever people
10:55
kind of think about it from that perspective it's almost like a light bulb goes off sometimes because I think
11:00
some that I find with clients especially whenever they've had their website for a few years and and maybe they cobbled it
11:07
together themselves when they started or they got somebody else to do it is if they haven't looked at it for a while
11:13
the message that they have on it right now probably isn't going to be attracting the clients that they want to
11:18
be attracting at this point in their business because because everything changes right it's a transformational thing just being in business the people
11:24
you work with and the Fulfillment you get from your work is going to change over time and so you need to really
11:30
understand who you want to attract to your business and then also who are you attracting to your business and are they
11:37
the same person because there's that side of it too and if it's not the right person if it's not the person you want
11:43
to be bringing in then you definitely need to do some work on what it is you're offering and the messaging you're
11:49
putting out with it to make that change for yourself too oh absolutely and I think that's the thing is a lot of times
11:55
people sort of treat a website like it's a set it and forget it thing but it's meant to be a constantly evolving thing
12:02
I only redid my website copy and I did a big overhaul in January and I am now
12:08
changing one side of my services and I'm like okay okay I've got a lot of work to do
12:15
okay we're still covering the same two core types of services but the way I'm going
12:23
to be delivering it is really going to change and that's going to be different like that's going to be a
12:29
different type of person I'm talking to um for that service because and honestly
12:34
it's going to be more aligned in a lot of ways but I think another thing you talked about
12:39
that people think that I see people do quite a lot is they talk like you said like
12:47
about the business or about like so okay they essentially they just talk not necessarily
12:55
um to the or they talk to the person but not necessarily in the right way so what
13:00
I mean by this is usually they keep themselves too centered right like you were saying so they're either using a
13:06
lot of technical jargon or industry words or they their about page is actually
13:13
like about them I know it's a really weird thing to say if you're outside our
13:18
world but your website really your about page really shouldn't be about you it's about how you're uniquely positioned to
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solve their problems 100 so tell us a bit about that because you
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know how horrible that I do it's it's such an interesting thing because it's it's such a simple reframing I think
13:38
that people need a lot of the time and it's something I've been talking about a little recently which is on your about page so you go on to the about page of a
13:45
website and it has you know a brief company history a timeline you know information like we opened our new
13:52
office on this day and we grew our team to this size and we won this award and all of that information is is fine but
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everything on your about page with every single thing that you write it should be a does this matter to my reader and if
14:06
so why so it can be such a simple reframing it's not even like because obviously you need to talk about
14:12
yourself and your about page but everything you say has to be funneled towards the this information proves that
14:19
I am the right person to work with you or this information proves that this product is the right thing for you and I
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think whenever people it's almost like people need to ask themselves up pretty much with every sentence that they write
14:31
to be honest and and people don't do it because again as we've said you know you're so stuck in in what you're doing
14:37
every day that you kind of forget that this isn't for you or about you necessarily it's what makes you the
14:44
right choice for the person reading it and you're so right about the technical jargon inside of things as well like I'm
14:51
sure we'll talk about this a little bit later but simple copy is always going to be the most effective because I don't know about you but if I go on a website
14:57
and I see a heap of information and language that I don't understand I'm not going to go and Google what it means I'm
15:04
just gonna leave you know like I'm not I'm not gonna take the time because the job is on the the business or the
15:11
business owner to educate me in a way that I can find accessible if that is needed
15:17
um it shouldn't be on me to then go away and figure out what everything means on my own if that makes sense and this ties
15:23
into like the design thing as well because a lot of times I'll get a bunch of copy from somebody and it's or you'll
15:28
see a website it's a big wall of text so that's almost the same thing it's like people aren't going to read that whole thing you've got to break it up with
15:35
bullet points or spacing or add some images or icons like that's my job
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um I don't expect my clients to always do that I they just have to give me the copy so that I can make that happen
15:47
um but it is like that same idea you need to make it digestible for people
15:52
yes and I think it's something that a lot of people Miss on websites
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um because it can be so easy to just be like well here's the information yeah
16:05
yeah it's about being kind of strategic about what really needs to be there as well because there's so many other
16:11
opportunities to go into detail right like if you want to describe like everything about your background make it
16:17
a series of blog posts that people can optionally read if they want to learn more and just have the essential
16:23
information on your website because you're right you know those like breaking up text and headings and bullet
16:30
points all of that is so key to making things more digestible and accessible but there's still a point where when a
16:36
page is too long like at what point are people actually going to stop reading it and and it's much quicker than anybody
16:41
thinks as well so it's there's there really is options for you to expand on
16:47
all of this information you just don't have to put it all in this one place yeah I totally agree and
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I think a lot I'm often trying to get my clients to edit um I think a lot of times I think it's
16:59
interesting because I see specific industries that people are worthier um I don't know what it is about people
17:06
that are sort of in the holistic e Wellness yoga area they love to write things down and they love to say a lot
17:13
and it's beautiful it's a beautiful usually beautifully written in a lot of really good information but you're kind
17:20
of you're right you're at a point where you're kind of like well nobody's going to read all this we have to edit it and
17:25
I am my clients usually are lovely and do that but um and then or there's people in industries that are
17:33
um they have maybe a lot of like certifications and stuff and I'm like nobody cares about these and I know
17:40
that's a really weird thing to say and I'm just going to say this you've said this in a nicer way but I'm going to say this in a cross crude way because I
17:47
think it makes it really impactful like I ask my clients why the would they
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care like yeah like and I say that because if you put it like do they care would you care and
18:00
like putting just that really I know it's like an f word and but I swear constantly but I think putting it in
18:05
that really almost like really gut like gotta roll like
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if you went on somebody's website and this was there would it matter to you and that's
18:15
and it's not that we can't have your credentials but it shouldn't be a hugely prominent thing you know a line of of uh
18:22
logos or um a drop down section that says my qualifications and it's an accordion
18:28
like they can be there yeah um but I don't think they need to feature as
18:33
heavily as a lot of people totally make total I I think about in like the
18:39
coaching space for example you know you touched on that almost like holistic space people can definitely put all of
18:44
their qualifications in and I think as you say you know having a row of logos or even a bullet point list if you need
18:50
to it's fine but there's almost an implication in there that people will understand what that means too people
18:56
will understand what these qualifications are you understand what they are because you got them but your
19:01
your target reader probably doesn't care that much there's a way of putting that information across that doesn't
19:07
involve 20 different courses that you've done over a certain point of time you know and then having to explain what each of
19:14
them means it's just about putting across at your highly experienced highly you know I mean highly knowledgeable
19:20
like you are the person who can make this change for the reader rather than a here's it's almost like that you know
19:26
features thing again isn't it it's just that information that people don't actually really care about because it doesn't drill down to the key point and
19:33
I think I try and focus on Authority like Authority building is so important on your website
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um and I think that usually if you can do it visually it's better so you know
19:45
testimonials where it's only a couple lines but you have an image of that person or it's a video
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um or you know a row of icons of all the people your top clients or where you your work has been featured and those
19:59
kinds of things are more impactful because people's brains will process them without actually having to read
20:04
anything absolutely and that's the things that's so interesting because people always say you know oh you wouldn't want people to
20:11
use video and images and stuff is copyright or you just want people to use words and I think well no because everything works together it's the
20:18
combination of everything that really leads to a website in this case being successful it's the the video that you
20:25
can put together it's the testimonials you can include it's the images that bring you to life it all has to fit in
20:32
order to work because one element on its own isn't going to be enough really for the most part to actually do the job
20:38
yeah so when you're thinking about best practices with website copy so obviously
20:46
there's lots and lots of types of copy out there but let's focus on the website copy what are like some really key
20:52
things that stand out to you the number one thing is keeping things
20:58
simple a hundred percent I just I I can't envision I and I've worked on a lot of different
21:04
projects I've worked with a lot of different clients in a lot of different spaces and there's never been a point
21:10
where I've thought this complex term should be used here and here's why you know like because the reader there's
21:16
always this implication I think with people as we've said that business owners can sometimes assume that their reader has the same level of knowledge
21:23
about their field as they do and they almost never do you know it'll be your
21:28
competition who will know the same amount as you it'll be the people in your office who know the same man as you're a reader your target client
21:34
probably won't that's why they need you right that's why they need your help for the most part so keep things really
21:41
really simple is always my kind of number one key point I also think as
21:46
well people can as we say get a little bit overexcited and really feel the need to over explain things sometimes and so
21:53
I always when I'm helping people to write their own copy or I'm giving advice on that I tell them to do something which I do every time I'm
21:59
writing a page which is the post at note Tech check so what I do is I write out the key message like the key USP or the
22:06
key benefit or the key outcome for the client for example on a Post-It note and I stick it up on the wall and then every
22:13
so often when I'm writing I think God right okay and I'll look at it and I'll be honest with myself whether that
22:19
key point is actually coming through strongly enough or if it's got lost in a lot of other detail and so much the time
22:26
it can get lost because you get a bit overexcited and you can't really figure out what information to prioritize so
22:31
have one key message in in at least your sections I mean I would say for a lot of
22:37
the time on your page you should really have one key message to be honest and and just make sure that that's really
22:43
clear because if anybody's coming away from your website confused about what it is that you do that's that's not going
22:50
to help you get to those right people yeah totally and I think the way that I
22:55
treat things as different than a lot of other website designers but
23:00
the home page first off in my opinion is sort of a directory people like you
23:06
don't want it to be like every offer or thought or way someone can plug in with you but it really should be the all the
23:12
key ways that people can plug in with you whether that be a list of your services a way to preview and maybe get
23:19
a snippet of what's going on on your blog some testimonials um a little bit about you those kinds of
23:25
things yeah so that they can then sort of choose their own adventure so to speak
23:32
um the other and and I think that's really important and then yeah from there and pretty much every other page
23:37
should have one key thought that people are focusing on
23:43
um you and I have talked about this a little bit before but my thing about websites is I'm a firm
23:50
believer that form follows function there's a lot of designers that will give you a wireframe or we'll design
23:56
something up in figma and you have like all this so you then have to constrain
24:02
every image every word everything into this tiny or into this layout that's
24:07
been pre-created yes but website layouts don't okay this is going
24:13
to be like a revolutionary weird thing that I don't think I've ever said before website
24:19
layouts don't matter like they don't and the reason they don't matter is because the message matters and that
24:26
and the message comes through as we talked about with Karen it's in the images as well so your your images your
24:32
video your icons your font choices along with your website words all make
24:40
that message right it gives people your color choices you know if you're choosing
24:46
open spacious colors bright colors warm colors kind of like you're telling that story visually
24:52
and through your words but the way you actually structure and lay that out
24:59
doesn't matter the whole you know what comes first the
25:06
chicken of the egg what comes first the design of the coffee is is such an interesting topic that people feel so
25:11
differently about based on my experience I pretty much as much as I can exclusively work with designers who take
25:18
exactly the same approach as you because there's just a recognition that it's it
25:24
it needs the website needs to be built around the message as you've said and I don't know if you've had the experience before one that I really try to avoid is
25:31
when design and web are working at the same time but not together whenever designing copier at the same time not
25:37
together it's a nightmare because it just ends up taking so much longer
25:43
because no one's communicating about what needs to be done and that can be
25:48
really challenging is definitely what I find so that the designers that I usually work with always say you know to
25:53
the client I'm not building anything until you've signed off on the copy because at that point I know exactly
26:00
what I'm working with and the design gets done so much quicker as a result is generally what what they say and more
26:06
efficiently and just everybody I'm sure from your end there's probably less edits and adjustments needed and rounds
26:13
of of changes and stuff it just streamlines the process so much like I have a client
26:19
well she I don't know if she'll ever see this but if she does like sending all your love but she hit me a draft of her
26:27
of her copy and she's waiting for revisions from um her from her copywriter friend
26:32
essentially and um I'm like cool now I have a bit of an
26:37
idea of what I'm going off but I'm not doing anything because again if a bunch of things change then if the length of
26:45
this paragraph changes a whole lot that I'm redesigning and so I don't because I
26:50
need to know where the headings are where the main paragraphs are like all of these things because well I can
26:56
change things a little right I can like break a paragraph up a little or maybe
27:01
add in some bullet points or some icons or something here and there um there's usually some scope for that
27:07
from the copywriter um I really can't
27:12
drastically change the copy without changing the message right so I can't change the length of things
27:17
um those things very much but I I firmly believe that in the form follows function because
27:24
people have to connect with your words they have to connect with all that and I can I can design a website
27:31
that looks exactly how you want it to look and around that like if you want a
27:36
spacious warm inviting website with all these features I can do that
27:41
but it's going to make so much more sense to do it after I've received your copy okay because you know the tone the
27:49
tone is so clear immediately isn't it and it just helps inform everything even I got my own website built a couple of
27:55
months ago and I was kind of I was I was sort of the client that I hate in a way because I was so busy with client work
28:01
that it took me a little bit longer to write the coffee than I thought but actually seeing it with my own stuff
28:08
just reinforced it in my head even further that the words were so integral
28:13
to actually helping create the feel of the website and create the build of the website because you know whenever you
28:20
know we talked about this a little bit before but whenever I have to work say somebody's built a box as you say in a wireframe and there's room for 30 words
28:27
and that's it that that's all I have to work with to get a key message across and it is so dependent on the business
28:32
whether that's actually practical or not um it's so difficult and the LA and then
28:38
as you say with on on your side if you know you have to if you've built something and then I send you eight
28:44
lines but you've only got space for three then it's a how do we actually kind of condense this dying and how do
28:49
we make this more like how do we not make this a really laborious thing that's going to take a long time so I
28:55
think you're absolutely right it's like when you work it in stages it just makes things so much easier
29:01
words first yeah I don't start projects until I have photo
29:14
somebody has all vertical images that's going to affect the design those kinds of things we talked about that with
29:20
Karen so those are the two things that are really key for me um
29:25
the other thing just technically for all of you Watchers out there two technical tips I have if you're writing your own
29:32
copy one bring the margins of your page like way
29:37
in so you can kind of see what it's going to look like it changes everything
29:42
um because you're going to get an idea for how like that paragraph that looks really short on like a full wave document is going to look
29:49
really smushed which is the point that's how your website's gonna look especially if you stick it next to an image
29:55
and the other thing is like I have a another client that has recently sent me
30:00
over their copy and I'm like did you look at that document I sent you like I have a work a workbook it's a Google
30:07
form for people who are diying and it's based on story brand and
30:13
it think you know there's it's got a whole bunch of brainstorming room for them and then it says tying it all
30:19
together and it says homepage headline list of all the services you offer a snippet of about you so I can intro to
30:25
them into the out and I think it's got format that people who are diying don't
30:31
necessarily know to follow right that you're going to need that copy at the top of the page then you're going to
30:36
need a little bit about who you are and what you do and then you're going to need to opt people into like here's what I have to offer you on
30:43
the home page and then Snippets so that we can direct them to the the longer form pages
30:49
um and so thinking that through like the the functionality of that
30:55
um and if you don't know it yes look up story brand or look up other
31:00
website examples that you love or get in touch with a copywriter yeah absolutely and it's because it's
31:07
one of those things where I think people can sometimes think oh if I talk to a copywriter I'm going to need to pay x
31:12
amount of money and you know like for the most part certainly speaking for myself I I'm very happy to give people
31:18
advice whenever you know they really want to have that control for themselves because I think that
31:24
as you say this is this is very old hard to ask like this is information that we know but so much of the time this is
31:30
something quite new to our clients whenever we're working with them so there is definitely some education that
31:36
can be required you know I do some consultation work with clients who really want to write their own websites
31:41
but they just need help to get the foundations in place first because there's no point in them
31:47
sitting starting to write something and then three months later thinking actually I think my target market might be slightly different pulling it all
31:53
back down and starting again it's almost like you you can get that advice without necessarily needing to use a copywriter
31:59
if that's not something that you're interested in but get some advice and look around as you've said because it'll
32:05
just help you structure things so much easier because when people don't know it's very easy
32:11
for them then to send it to you I'm sure and then for you think well that isn't gonna fit anywhere and here are all the
32:17
reasons why but they just don't know that so I love the fact that you do a workbook and it just helps give a little bit of structure to something that
32:23
people can find quite overwhelming I find to do it themselves especially if it's first time yeah totally okay so if
32:30
you are diying your copy yeah your website copy and you're trying to drill
32:37
down and you've touched a little bit of it drilling down on who your people are and then you're trying to sound like
32:42
yourself and drawing up that message do you have any tips for that
32:47
so it's such an interesting thing because Ellie I know that you go networking as well and that's something
32:53
I do quite a lot and I wonder if you ever find this is that people can be so good at pitching themselves in a
33:00
networking room you know they come across exactly how they are and then you read their website and it's like a
33:05
completely different person has written it and you're like whoa where did this disconnect happen in the middle
33:11
and I know that people are super afraid of being themselves and putting themselves out there I think they're
33:17
worried it's going to turn people off I would argue that you're going to turn people off that aren't the right fit for
33:22
you so that's kind of part of the point really quick I think a lot of times people will see that it might not be professional enough you know I think
33:29
that's it and I think as well you know the world is changing so much like the impact that
33:35
personal brand has now in comparison with you know even five years ago is huge and I think with the rise of
33:42
artificial intelligence and these huge kind of Corporations people are more interested in authentic connections and
33:50
feeling like they really relate to someone you know people buy On Emotion rather than logic people want to know
33:57
who you are especially for example if you're a service provider who are the kind of typically the people that I work with so some that I always say to people
34:04
is actually read your copy out loud whenever you write it so say you write a first draft
34:10
read it out loud and then ask yourself does this actually sound like me or does
34:16
this sound like somebody completely different because that's such a key way because you're hearing it in your own
34:22
voice and all of a sudden it's a little bit more like you're talking in that networking room or on that you know
34:28
client call or something like that and you're hearing it and you're thinking oh that doesn't sound like me how can I
34:34
make it sound like me and then it's just thinking like the way you describe things the words and phrases that you use you know whenever I'm working with
34:40
clients I keep a little word Bank of the way they describe things and the certain like little idiosyncrasies in the
34:47
language that they use so that I can then inject that into the copy and then they read it and they think oh that
34:52
actually really sounds like me so people can do that for themselves as well you know I think it's just about having that
34:58
confidence that you are the person that people want to work with you are the person that is attracting people to your
35:04
business people want to hear your voice and hear from you and I think whenever people start to think about it like that
35:10
it can make it that much easier to really get a bit more of their own personality across yeah
35:16
totally and those are all things that I've sort of learned the hard way um so my business I won't go into this
35:23
too much but I start my degree was in biology and Community Health so when I started my own business and had to like
35:30
write copy and blog posts and copy and content both of them came out sort of
35:35
sounding clinical and I think I spent a lot of time writing what I think people wanted to hear versus when they what I
35:41
knew they needed to hear I think if that makes sense um so not it not in the same way not to
35:48
confuse people in the we talked earlier about writing in the tone and things that people can digest that's different than the actual content yes
35:56
um that people need or that people need to hear right so you kind of write what people want to hear
36:01
nobody will then read it because it sounds boring and Bland and um
36:06
generic maybe um but so I made that mistake quite a few
36:12
times and we all have for sure I mean even when I started I I kind of wrote I
36:17
I didn't really know what my business was going to be I didn't really know I
36:23
knew that I wanted to work with clients that weren't in travel because I love to travel but I've done it and I was ready
36:28
to do something else and I wanted to keep building my skills and I wanted to figure out what I liked the most so when
36:34
I look back at my website you know even six months in I was like because it's not quite right because I was very much
36:40
in that in that space of you know being brand new to run in a business I didn't know how much of myself I should be or
36:46
how much of myself I could be when I was putting myself out there and then I realized pretty quickly it would be very
36:52
exhausting to try and be anything but myself so I'm just not going to do it and then at that point I was able to
36:58
think okay this website does not sound as much like me as it needs to let's make some changes so I think it's that
37:04
getting that confidence you know to really feel it and as you say you know your background can dictates so much
37:09
about worked with academics before and so the way they write is very specific
37:14
but it's not quite going to work for their business it's just their background and sometimes it can take a
37:19
little bit of unlearning to really get to the heart of what it is you want to say yeah and I have a few trips that
37:25
I've learned some of them you've mentioned so I do keep a little bit of a bank of words and things that I use so I say hey like I don't write hi hello I
37:32
mean I do sometimes I get an email but most of the time I say hey yeah like hey I'm like hey
37:37
um so I know that I swear in my content and my copy very intentionally because I never want somebody to hop on a call and
37:44
be offended I want them to know in advance that that is my mouth that is what comes up
37:50
um that is an intentional thing I also um have very started keeping a bank of
37:56
things people say to me about my work so this is not just testimonials but I do take Snippets from that but I very
38:03
frequently I've done this multiple times this year done research calls with people that I know are my ideal clients
38:10
um and just seeing where they're at what they're thinking the words they use around the type of work I do
38:16
um so like I know that what I do pretty much as systems but the idea of systems
38:22
automation technology freak people out so I try and use other words to describe
38:27
what I do Simplicity doing business with ease freeing up time taking yourself off manual mode these not picking yourself
38:34
off manual mode taking that I took directly from a client case study like but it was one of the best ways to
38:40
describe what I do that I'd ever seen yeah 100 and and it comes very naturally like that as well I think I I had
38:47
already known say a year ago that I loved working with clients in in the personality kind of LED copy space of
38:54
really trying to get into somebody's head and write as them but clients were the people who kept
38:59
saying it to me you know they were saying like it's like it's like I wrote it but it's better you know I mean and
39:04
that's kind of the best compliment someone can give me because that's what I'm trying to do so that's what I've
39:10
been able to lean on in promoting my services to other people as well because you know that you're gonna find more of
39:15
that right person so that's a really good thing actually for for anybody to do another thing I was going to say on
39:21
on the website copy side of things alongside looking at your own key message and asking yourself is coming
39:26
through ask people who have nothing to do with your business as well so like get and not even you know I wouldn't ask
39:33
my partner necessarily because he runs his own business too and he knows everything that's going on in my life because I either like I'm joyful about
39:39
it or complain about it so he knows but like I'll get you know my parents know a little bit less my sister knows less my
39:45
friends know less ask them what the key messages that's coming across ask them
39:50
if it sounds like you because they'll be honest you know because they know you but they don't know your business and
39:55
that can be really important feedback to get so it's like those research calls but it's also looking a lot like close to home for the messaging side of things
40:02
for sure yeah totally when I redesigned my website in January I got to the point where you know no matter what you do and
40:08
you're doing something you're spending several hours on you get to the point where you're like I'm looking at this cross side and I cannot see the wood
40:15
through the trees or any like you could use as many out like metaphors as you want I you just can't see it for what it
40:22
is anymore you have no distance from it you have very little like So eventually you just have to kind of
40:28
hand it over to the your for feedback um you have to hand it over to like just
40:34
being done is better than perfect putting it out there and letting yourself go okay somebody's gonna like
40:41
um like you will let it evolve on the page live as well sometimes yeah yeah and and
40:51
knowing that that's fine as well like your business is going to evolve the services or the products you offer are
40:57
going to evolve naturally so don't ever wait for something to be what you define
41:02
as perfect because it's never going to happen because it everything is just constantly changing yeah
41:09
absolutely and so we've talked about so much of what I want to talk about
41:15
um I think it's just like I think it can be challenging to speak
41:21
it as yourself um I think because I've like I've gone from like iteration to iteration of this
41:29
right um and the more I I am myself in my business the more I
41:35
take up space as exactly who I am the more my business grows in like a multitude of ways yeah
41:42
um I'm working with who I like to work with I make money that way better I have
41:47
more alignment I have better boundaries like it's all just like so many things that stem from just being who you are in
41:54
business um one thing that I don't personally do but
41:59
I know somebody who does and her messaging is so effective like so so
42:05
effective um is one of my coaches she will pick
42:10
somebody one of her ideal clients she's got a few to work with now and she will pick somebody and write to that person
42:17
nice yeah yeah like to that specific person because she knows that the types of issues that people are coming up
42:23
she's a coach will be there's not just one person experiencing that the other thing is is in her community if we talk
42:31
about something that's affecting us or impacting us or whatever um she knows that again her the people
42:37
who are on the other side of the doors that haven't joined yet are probably facing those things too so she has this
42:43
Bank of resources just by having this community um but I know the same thing I know to
42:49
pull like I I used to just ask people for testimonials and I still do to an extent but I have chosen to take time to
42:56
dig in um and ask where were you before you worked with me what has it allowed you
43:03
to do after working with me not just it was great I recommend her it was you
43:09
know those kinds of things which are great too for my Google reviews or whatever but being able to say I took
43:15
this person from here to here gives you the language which to talk about transformation that you're offering yeah
43:21
yeah it's the outcome of everything as we've said that people are most interested in it's a you need to give
43:27
them the after you need to give them what their life is going to look like after engaging with your product or after engaging with your service because
43:34
that's something they can tangibly imagine for themselves and that's so important I I had something similar
43:40
quite recently where I worked with a client and and this wasn't even the testimonial this was just an email feedback piece from like a first draft
43:46
and she said I finally get my own business and I was like whoa that that's huge
43:53
like because she'd been feeling so just so not confident in the way she'd been putting things across and just so
44:00
worried that the message wasn't clear and you know all it takes is the right language in order to sell it and as
44:06
you've said you know whenever you put yourself out there whenever you put more of yourself into it you find that
44:13
language and it brings the right people to you so much more often and it just
44:18
helps you grow I think as well as your business let alone anything else yeah totally I think another couple of
44:25
tips um sometimes when people really struggle to write about their business if you can voice note it to yourself you
44:31
can edit you can have that transcribed go ahead and then it will just give you points to work from it'll also get some
44:37
of that how I sound thing down like if you use contractions if you say y'all if
44:42
you swear it'll all end up in there right so that gives you a good place to start
44:47
as well when you're feeling a little overwhelmed um I just I had another one it's ran away
44:54
but [Laughter] I was doing all the things you can do to
45:02
to really ask yourself does this sound like me because you know yourself you know how you talk to the people in your
45:09
life you know and as you say that voice note thing is amazing because it's that same you know hearing out loud you think
45:14
okay this is something it's not necessarily pulling all of it in but it's thinking here are the very specific points of this that I can pull into my
45:21
copy that will resonate with the right person yeah yeah I think
45:28
you're the way you speak will evolve the way you speak about your business will evolve so like you're never going to
45:35
have it right all the time um you will outgrow your copy you will need to revise your copy oh yeah so and
45:42
that's like all places not just websites I'm like thinking I did this thing called the nine grade method on my Instagram so it's like a mini website
45:49
and I did that at the start of the year as well when I did my website and I'm thinking I gotta update that too
45:57
yeah I want to talk a little about the like
46:02
technical side of copy um and so these are the things that
46:07
probably some people either don't know how to do or maybe wouldn't even know exist
46:15
um and I know that that's a bit daunting for anybody watching but don't be so I
46:20
want to talk about increasing conversions yeah and I want to talk about SEO yeah and so do you want to
46:27
start kick us off in the that direction yeah I mean the increasing conversion thing is one of the most effective
46:33
things people can do and it's so simple is look at the actual words in your call
46:38
to action if you're telling people things like learn more read more find
46:44
out more there's no urgency behind that and there's not really any action behind
46:50
it either like the whole point of a call to action is action getting people to do
46:55
a very particular thing in order to get in touch so if you're someone whose website reads a lot of you know read
47:01
more learn more find out more you know here I am type thing just change it to
47:06
say book a call or register for X you know I mean it's actually giving people
47:12
something tangible to do because I definitely I'm guilty of you know I go on a website and I click on all these
47:18
different pages with you know the find more call to action and the tab will stay open in my 150 tabs that I have
47:24
open at any given opportunity and then eventually I'll close it because I'm not going to read it and you don't want to
47:30
be doing that with your website so really if conversion is something you're struggling with call to action is
47:35
definitely one of the first things I would look at actually what you're telling people to do and if it's effective and if there's any urgency
47:42
behind it because you know what we're like we kind of say we're going to do something and then we
47:47
move on and then we maybe come back to it six months later sometimes but we also maybe don't come back to it six months later whereas if it gives
47:53
somebody something to do right now they're more likely to actually do it so
47:58
that would be my number one thing and I'm sure from a design perspective you've got loads of kind of things that you would suggest on the conversion side
48:04
as well I think I mean they're keeping it simple is probably the biggest thing for conversion like just keeping your
48:09
website clean and cluttered and having like you've said I was gonna that's very much my point is your call to action
48:15
well I love your the idea of the language behind it which is something that I wouldn't say I'm like super
48:20
skilled with but having one main call to action now I know your
48:26
homepage is going to say learn more about me and check sign up for my newsletter all that but the primary
48:32
thing of your website should have one call to action so for a service based
48:37
business that is going to almost always be book a call let's start this conversation or I have a client who's
48:43
like really really high-end so it's fill out an application to work with me and that sort of thing but that's fine
48:50
that's important too the other if you're an e-commerce business is
48:55
going to be buy buy the thing buy the thing buy the thing buy the thing right and you're going to have lots of different ways that you tell people buy
49:01
the thing check out this collection or like whatever it is here's a sale but at
49:07
the end of the day you're saying buy the thing buy the thing buy The Thing by the thing right um and my website it is over and over
49:13
again let's chat Book on a call today like it is that whole 20 minutes to
49:20
it's just over and over again that that thing yeah so keeping it consistent and
49:25
not having too many calls to action I think is something yeah absolutely although I will say more frequently than
49:31
too many calls to action I see people having almost none yes there is that
49:36
problem and then there's also so say and you know as we said it's about keeping the call to action simple if someone
49:42
clicks on it and then needs to jump through 17 Hoops in order to actually complete the action so many people are
49:49
gonna just not do that so it's about being really um intentional with the kind of call to
49:55
action that you're putting on your website as you say making it consistent but yes there's so many cases
50:00
we struck there with my systems brain like such a balance to be struck out there because
50:05
for example my call to action is book a call but for that call I want to qualify
50:10
that lead a little yeah I don't want just anybody hopping on that call I want to know that they are going to take it
50:16
seriously right so I think it's super easy for them I've made it like technically very simple they click a
50:21
link they pick a date they tell me a tiny tiny bit about their business name uh website social media handle
50:30
um if they're here like if they're here for Weber Tech Systems kind of thing and that way I can do my homework before
50:36
the call too so I can go check out their website and those kinds of things um so
50:42
yeah there's like a few steps there but it's not overwhelming I'm not giving them ever the same question there that
50:49
I'm giving my clients once they're through the door yeah yeah 100 100 on the SEO side I know that
50:57
that's something that people can quite find quite overwhelming because it is it's a huge topic on its own I don't
51:05
really call myself an SEO copywriter I always put make sure that I do keyword research and factor into page titles
51:12
meta descriptions like within the headings and the body body paragraphs on the website it's always in there and I
51:18
think any further than that is obviously there's the technical side for the website or I also know some incredible
51:23
SEO guys that if it's a real kind of I want this to be my number one market in
51:28
priority I will immediately just push them over to those guys because they the results they get are unbelievable
51:35
um but I think for SEO people need to one of the key things you can do and
51:40
this is maybe more on the content side and it's as we've said just think about the kind of questions that you're asked
51:45
just think about the things that people are bringing up to you all the time and then go and do your keyword research
51:50
based on that because if if I was say going to make my like the SEO keywords on my home page
51:57
I'm based in Glasgow to say I was going to say copyright or Scotland that that feels quite counterproductive in a lot
52:04
of ways because there's going to be so many other people with those same things and it's also what kind of copywriter
52:10
right it's one of those things as well there's so many different people who specialize in different versions of
52:16
writing copy that is actually a little bit counterproductive so I always say to people think about what it is that you
52:23
have to offer think about the things that people are asking you and then let's go away and look at keywords from
52:29
there and logically pick what's going to be the thing that makes the most sense because a lot of the time you shouldn't
52:34
be competing with the people who are you know you shouldn't be competing with the people who have got like the Search
52:40
terms sorry that I've got millions of hits because that's going to be very very hard to actually get results with
52:46
unless you've got the budget to really put behind a very robust continuous SEO
52:53
strategy which a lot of small business owners just don't have because it can be quite expensive yeah totally and going
52:59
like my perspective as so is so with Google's most recent change to the way
53:06
that they are indexing and doing SEO is it is human centered so keyword stuffing
53:14
is like out the door right so right answering those questions both in your copy
53:20
um but actually having a frequently Asked question section on your website that is still sounds like you and still
53:27
keeps up with your the way you speak and the way your message is and keeping all of that in mind but having that section
53:33
is going to be great for SEO because literally when people search things it's going to be there yeah
53:40
um writing blog posts or having content on your site whether that be a blog or a
53:45
podcast or YouTube or whatever that answers those questions like a lot of my website traffic comes from like three or
53:52
four YouTube videos that I've done that people are looking for answers to all the time right how to embed this thing
53:59
in Squarespace how do I change my colors or my fonts in Squarespace those kinds of things and I'm not the first person
54:05
to create those videos like those are other there's other videos out there that people are finding mine for a
54:10
reason because I've used the exact words they're searching for 100 um and I think the other thing is like
54:19
remember that SEO is a long game even if say your copywriter gives you the most
54:24
pristine and perfect SEO headlines
54:30
um page titles meta description which some of these are jargony I understand that some of these are just they're
54:36
little Snippets of things that go into the page look what Google shows you when you search for things
54:42
that's exactly what Google shows when you search um and that and Squarespace goes into like
54:50
a weird page setting section um and you can have all that perfect but you're
54:57
probably still not going to rank on page one because Google needs to know your websites existed for a while it's continuously updated
55:05
um that people link to your website because it's an authority and all these things that take time to build up yes
55:11
100 I think and I know that people can fall into the Trap where sometimes they get emails from people saying we'll get
55:17
you to the top one result on page one of Google in six weeks and it's like that doesn't exist
55:24
but it won't happen like that can't it just isn't how Google works so I think
55:29
if people are really going to focus on SEO as you've said they need to focus on it as a long game they need to be like
55:36
willing to kind of it's not going to be 100 perfect straight away it's going to take time but if you can put that time
55:42
in you will reap the rewards from it 100 yeah and I'm really excited for
55:48
Squarespace users out there and I'm going to do a video about this from the series has ended because they launched
55:53
it earlier this year but it's it's come Leaps and Bounds there is a essentially they call them it's called SEO space and
56:00
it is like the yoast of Squarespace and it's new but it is so effing good it has
56:07
taken this sort of clunky process that Squarespace gives you to optimize for SCS Squarespace is meant to be out of
56:14
the box pretty good for SEO and it is there's things you can do to make it even better and
56:20
um things that you wouldn't necessarily know like meta data length and things like that where it really helps you
56:25
analyze those things and the free plan is epic so I'm going to do a full video
56:31
on that for anyone interested in that later um because I've been using it now in my
56:36
business since the start of the year so I feel now that I have enough information on my own end to talk about
56:42
it properly yeah yeah but thank you so so much like this is
56:49
I just got to like geek out for an hour and I don't know where the other one the time is flowing in yeah I was gonna say
56:55
I can't believe we're at time that's crazy um but thank you so so much can you tell
57:00
everyone where they can find you absolutely so my website is www dot
57:06
magneticcopy.co.uk and then also if you search my name on LinkedIn I'm pretty
57:11
um Regular with content on LinkedIn that's a good place to find me I've got little red dots in my my headline and my
57:18
hair is a pretty identifiable feature because it's so bright white so people usually find me pretty quickly and but
57:24
those are the two key places um that people can just reach out because I'm always happy to chat and help people any way I can about all
57:31
things copy yes yeah that's how Ellen I met I think was LinkedIn
57:36
um but yeah and by Dutch she means she's got like um emojis essentially that are
57:42
like red circles that are sort of bullet points and very very identifiable which is right and if you go to her website
57:47
you kind of see that same like it's very clear she's very good with the brand
57:52
um well thank you again so so much um and if by the way just we're going to
57:59
sign off now here but if anyone has any questions feel free to comment on the video um and Emma or I can get back to you
58:06
over on YouTube thanks so much Ellie for having me again thank you bye
