Podcast S3E2: Content with Empathy with Sophy Dale

You can connect with the brilliant Sophy Dale over on LinkedIn or her website!

Show notes:

(Please note that these are computer generated and therefore imperfect).

Welcome to the capable collective podcast. He plays for women who want to ditch the overwhelm and learn to run their business with ease. I'm your host, Ellie McBride. And I firmly believe that as women and non-binary folks, we work best as a collective. So together with my. We are sharing the tools, systems and ethos behind a simple yet thriving business.

This season, we will be talking all about making great content from your website to social media. My guests and I are here to help you create content that attracts and engages your audience episodes drop on alternate Wednesdays. So make sure to subscribe, to catch everyone ready to dive in. So our guest today is named Sophy Dale and she is [00:01:00] absolutely brilliant.

And she's got such a warm personality. We're going to be talking about how to have empathetic content, how to create content that has empathy and connects. And Sophie is just brilliant at this. So a little more about her... Sophie Dale is a copywriter business coach and messaging strategy, who works primarily with online business owners helping them find the right words to the right people.

She believes that empathy can be a business owner's unfair advantage, enabling them to get right inside their ideal client's heads and create an emotional connection, so that potential clients feel seen, heard, and understood. Stories and words are at the heart of all of her. A lifelong bookworm. Her background is in publishing and the arts world where she worked with writers, including Margaret Atwood, Ian Rankin, and Lionel Shriver. Her experience as an editor, it gives her an edge and drawing out her clients' stories, seeing [00:02:00] connections and narrative arcs and helping them find the best ways to express who they are and what they do in a way that will connect with their ideal clients.

At various points, she's lived in Dublin, London, Paris. But she's now been based for many years in the beautiful city of Edinburgh, where she lives with her husband and daughter. I cannot wait for you to dig into this one. Let's go. I'm really excited to have you here, Sophie. Thank you so much for joining us.

Sophy Dale: I'm really happy to be here. 

Ellie: So if you don't mind, we're just going to jump right into this rapid round. Is that all right? 

Sophy Dale: That's absolutely fine by me. 

Ellie: Okay. So, uh, where are you from? 

Sophy Dale: So originally I'm from Yorkshire in the north of England these days. Um, I live in Edinburgh in Scotland, but that's where I'm from.

Ellie: Okay. And what are your preferred pronouns? 

Sophy Dale: She. Her. 

Ellie: Alrighty. When did you start your business? 

Sophy Dale: Yeah, this is a really hard question to [00:03:00] answer because I've had lots of businesses over the years. Um, and originally I just, you know, went freelance for a while and kind of bounced in and out of employment and freelance.

So this current business that I have now, I started in 2017, but I have had businesses of various forms for about 20 years. So that's why it's hard to answer the question. 

Ellie: Oh, I get that. I totally get that. I think that that's something that entrepreneurs generally. Started a while back. Right. They've like my first business was walking dogs and before, and I had created a website when I was, I dunno, 16 doing like hair apps for people.

Sophy Dale: That's such a funny sort of teenage. 

Ellie: I know, but I loved the macrame and I could do it really well. And yeah. Anyway, so yeah, I totally. And so with your freelancing and such before [00:04:00] you started this iteration of your business, was that also in writing and editing copywriting? 

Sophy Dale: Um, everything that I've done has been connected with writing for sure.

Um, when I first went freelance, it was as an editor, um, and also kind of arts project manager. Cause I'd worked for lots of arts organizations. So, um, then the. The thing that was the trigger for doing things differently was I'm having my daughter, who's now 11 and needing to run a business that could fit around completely unpredictable nap times and not require me to be in a certain place at a certain time, most of the time.

Um, and so that's when I set up an online editing business, um, and moved from there into mentoring. Right. And then over time, I found that people were asking me a lot about how I'd found my clients, how I had an online business, you know, like the, the nuts and bolts of [00:05:00] what I was doing behind the scenes and also about copywriting.

And could I write some copy for them or could I write their website for them? Or could I look at their website and help them to write it differently? Or do you know what I mean? That kind of. And so this business kind of grew after the questions. People ask me because I had the other business and it's taken a long time to decide which business to really focus my energies on.

Um, and it was hard letting go of the other business because cause with things about that, I really loved. But in the end it has really worked better to just have the one. 

Ellie: I get that I think. It's really cool that you had so many similar interests and expertise is, um, and they were all in interconnected connected, and then you got to choose how you, how it would best serve your clients and community, but also how it could best serve your life and how to make that mesh really well, which is, I think one of the biggest blessings of [00:06:00] entrepreneurship, right.

As that yes, you can, you can kind of dabble. You can explore, you can be multi-passionate, you can be really focused. You just do what's best for you. 

Sophy Dale: Absolutely. 

Ellie: So tell me what you love about your existing business. 

Sophy Dale: I think a couple of things, partly it is that freedom to be able to do things the way you want to do them.

And because I have been an online entrepreneur for over a decade now, I have a really clear sense of, you know, what works for me and what works for my clients. And so. The ways in which I've worked for him with people now, I think do play to my strengths and also get the results that my clients are looking for.

So I really love that. Being able to create something that is such an exact match, um, for, for me and, um, my audience. And other than that, it is just the freedom, the freedom overall, you know, the, the fact that you can decide to take time off the fact that if it's a sunny afternoon, you can think, right, I'm just going to go for a walk.

Now that kind of thing never gets old. And I think I [00:07:00] thought that at some point I might start taking that for granted, but I don't. And after all, you know, we do have to do our own tax returns and, and, you know, don't always know where the next client is coming from and all of that kind of thing. So it's good to enjoy the, the upside of entrepreneurship as well.

Ellie: Yes, definitely like Ireland and the UK in general, but Ireland, especially to clarify, because it's sort of a touchy subject I live in Northern Ireland, which is on the Ireland, like the island of Ireland. But as also a part of the UK. So both places not to say that Ireland is part of the UK. Um, both places are just a little bit, you don't usually know if you're going to get good weather when it comes at sort of a surprise 

Sophy Dale: and a gift 

Ellie: and the gift 

Sophy Dale: and you shouldn't waste it.

Ellie: And I think when I was employed before I was working for myself, you know, you could very easily be stuck behind a desk all day. And. The only nice day you had that month. And now you're like, [00:08:00] okay, I've worked for myself. Like, I'm going to go out unless I have a call. Like other than that, that's the only thing I'm doing today.

Sophy Dale: Yeah. Um, and I think that knowledge that, you know, you still gonna have to make up that time at some point, but it's up to you and you can choose to do that in the hours of darkness. For instance, when the glorious weather doesn't make any difference to you. 

Ellie: Right? Exactly. I do that evening work sometimes in front of the TV.

I have a tendency to like, to do a little bit of work early in the morning, on a weekend before my partner gets up. And yeah, it's kind of nice to have that flexibility, obviously. It's, it's, there's a whole conversation that we had last season about finding boundaries for yourself, but what's the point of being so rigid when you're, you know, it's, it's definitely all an EB and flow.

Okay. So tell me a little bit about what help you have in your business. I asked this question. Because while solopreneurs typically are wearing most or all the hats in their business, we all have help in some way, shape or form. And I'm really working to kind of debunk this myth, that [00:09:00] solopreneurs do it all by themselves and they scale, and they do all these things and reach some of the Heights that you see in solopreneur world on their own.

Sophy Dale: Yeah. I really think nobody gets there alone. Um, so in my case, in terms of. Other people who I employed to do things for me, it's very limited. Um, I work with a lovely VA and I'm also a tech support person who helps me with my podcast when that's in season. And, um, has also helped me with, uh, some stuff related to my courses.

But they're both people that I bring on for particular projects, rather than people who work with me all the time, but much more kind of significantly on a day-to-day basis. I am normally working with a coach or as part of a mastermind group or in some form of mentor. Relationship, something like that to be [00:10:00] getting, um, supporting that way, which has made a huge difference to me personally.

And I also have a couple of kind of informal, uh, sort of peer mastermind groups that I'm not in part of that make a huge, huge difference as well. Um, just like being able to bounce ideas off people who know your business really well, um, and being able to support one another, um, it's hugely, hugely valuable.

I would say. In a way, that's almost the thing I would miss most. If I, you know, if you had to take something away, that would be one of the last things I would want to take out. 

Ellie: Yeah. Definitely peer support. And like that whole, just knowing that you're in the same boat with somebody having somebody to bounce ideas off of, that's a huge part of why the capable collective even exists is that.

Pulling the curtain back behind the head, like all the nuts and bolts of business, because it can feel really lonely sometimes, especially because like, not all, but many people like us, like we work from home, [00:11:00] which means we spend almost all of our time in the same four walls and it can feel a little isolating sometimes, especially in a pandemic.

Um, so it is really good to have those peer communities that feel. There's nothing in this whole world, better than somebody who just gets it. Right. And that's in any area of our life, but especially in business, it feels really good for show. Yeah. Like with my, like my husband's also entrepreneurial, but he doesn't get it.

We are totally different. He's like building out their building, like software as a service product. Right. And I'm like, I don't understand that. Yeah. And he's just like, why, why are you doing service business? I don't understand that. It's, it's an interesting dynamic for sure. But it, it does help to know that he gets entrepreneurship as a whole.

And then in turn, the other thing I like to hear is kind of on that nuts and bolts side. What simple systems are you using to do business with [00:12:00] these? 

Sophy Dale: So I would say actually this, I don't think this is what you mean by system, but I think my biggest way of creating more ease in my business is being really super intentional about what I take on and what I don't take on.

Um, and really trying to not bite off more than I can chew and keeping the business as simple as possible, keeping my office as simple as possible. I'm keeping my marketing as simple as possible. And so just not, you know, compared to what I see other people talking about and what would I can see evidence of them doing.

I really don't do anywhere near as much, I think as a lot of other people do. But what I do do, I do kind of quite wholeheartedly. So I, I think that I have systems for what I do. And partly because. I don't do as many different things. I'm able to have processes that I know work for for what I do do that makes sense.

Ellie: Yes. 

No, I think that that's something that doesn't get talked [00:13:00] about a lot. Like you can have all the tools and bells and whistles and slick processes as you want, but if you're still taking on too much, That can probably still not going to help. Yeah. That said, do you have like one tool or software that you just couldn't live without?

Sophy Dale: I think I would find it hard to live without Trello. I'm quite a visual thinker. And so being able to kind of make lots of lists and move things around, um, and see the progress that I'm making, that kind of thing. Um, Really helpful for the way that my brain works. I'm sort of dabbling with the idea of, um, working with notion, um, which I've got various friends who are just completely in love with it, but it feels so all encompassing.

And I'm just like, do I have time to take on this huge project of learning this whole new way of thinking about things? And at the moment the answer is no. So, um, something like Trello, which is nowhere near as powerful as. As notion is [00:14:00] nowhere near as versatile. Nevertheless does actually do the thing I needed to do.

And so, yeah, I think that's a tool. I would find it hard to live with that. I mean, there's all the obvious ones as well in terms of like Sue and I use acuity as my scheduling software and my websites on Squarespace. And so, you know, a lot of technologies and systems that I could not run my business without, but in terms of one though, I like for the way that my brain works.

Um, I think Trello is the one I'm thinking. 

Ellie: Yeah, that's very, very cool. I've had various conversations and I think that that's probably, in my opinion, the number one thing somebody has to have is so. Sort of project management tool, but you can see everything coming up. And so I use a sauna. You use Trello.

I love Trello. I've used it. Actually some of my, some of the contractors I employ use it. So my podcast editor uses it, which means I still interact with it. I've had. A friend, actually, we had on this podcast, [00:15:00] we had Sasha who is obsessed with notion and she really, really liked it. And then I converted her to a sauna because, and I think my thing would notion is that it's beautiful.

It can do so much my husband and they use it for their whole team at work. And I love that. But for me, It is too unstructured. It's sort of like playing Minecraft, right? Yeah. Like there's no, you have to create everything. 

Sophy Dale: Yes. And I think that's what I find overwhelming about the thought of it. Like, I can see that when you have created everything, it must be amazing to work with, but that's, that's quite a big, big task.

Whereas at the moment I can actually do all the things I need to do with these much simpler systems. 

Ellie: I mean it can do so, so much. So if you're interested in sort of an all-in-one like people use it to track their, um, like inquiries that use it for FAQ sections, they use it for like their, um, discussion boards [00:16:00] and things for their communities and it can be used for pretty much anything.

So if you're interested, definitely check it out, but just know it is a time investment. Yes. All right. So today we're talking about creating content with empathy, which has to one of your specialties. Um, I, America kilt still can't say speciality boggles my brain, but tell us a little bit more about that.

Sophy Dale: Uh, I think that essentially all content has to have some element of empathy to it, or it's just not going to resonate with any of its readers. But I think that by foregrounding, the idea of really coming at your content creation. From the perspective of what do your ideal readers want to know and what what's behind them wanting to know it, and what's going on in their lives around that.

And so on, you can create content, which is much, much more effective and will do much more of what you wanted [00:17:00] to do. But also it's easier to create, like, you know, so much of the hard work is done for you. If you, if you really do your audience research, And you really find out what people do want to know, um, and what they really are struggling with and what aspect of that thing they're really struggling with then that kind of creates the content for you.

And then all you have to do is fill in the fill in the blanks. Um, and I also think that. It's great to bring that element in for creating content and also for writing sales copy and that kind of thing. But actually when I'm working with clients, we try and take it a step further back into the process and make it instrumental in how offers get developed in the first place.

Because if you are going to take all that trouble to really step into the shoes of your ideal client and really get to know what's on their mind and what's keeping them up at night and so on and so forth. Then you might [00:18:00] as well design an offer that absolutely hits all of those notes and then all your content and everything will follow on from that and connect back to it.

And I've just, I remember when I first kind of got into the online business world, being quite surprised by the extent to which you were supposed to just kind of get. He was supposed to guess what people wanted and guess what they were thinking. And you were supposed to come up with offers that excited you, and then you had to go out there and try and find people who might also be excited by them.

Whereas if, if you come at it from the other end and say, okay, this is group of people who I think I might be interested in working with, let me go and kind of hang out in the spaces they hang out in. Um, and. See, what is bubbling to the surface there and what, what, what are people's burning questions and what are they really struggling with?

And then you create the offer. At that point, it's kind of essentially got to be a better offering. It's got to have a better chance of, [00:19:00] of being sold at the end of the day. And we are all in business, actually not to create beautiful content unless we are content writers on behalf of other people. What we're in business to do is sell the thing that we're selling.

And I sometimes feel that gets lost in the content creation process for solopreneurs. 

Ellie: Yeah. I think that what's really cool is that you've sort of over time, you built this business out of all the questions and things you had. So you had followed that process, not just with your offers, but with your essentially entire business in this, in this iteration.

So you're talking about. Knowing who you're working with. And I think that I, a lot of business owners it's that first year or two in business is really market. You're just like, I'm just going to work with everyone. I may try and I'm going to offer all the things and then you sorta from there can get into it.

But if you wanted to say, get [00:20:00] to there, get there sooner, or start from that very square one. Okay, how do I get into their head without going through as much of that metal a process? Do you have any recommendations for how you find those spaces or how you. Be in communication with the people that you want to work with so that, you know what it's keeping them up at night.

Sophy Dale: Um, so I go into all of this in a lot more detail in, um, I've got a little mini course called mind reader, and that goes into hugely more detail than I can here. But essentially I would say supposing, you were either brand new in business or maybe you're thinking of pivoting your business. And so you want to work with a new audience or you want to have a different kind of offer or something.

And so you don't have a ready-made group. You know, former clients and community of your own that you can be, um, hanging out with, if that is the case. And then there are lots of ways in which you can nevertheless, find those people. [00:21:00] So one of the ways that I think is really helpful, like an obvious thing to do.

And the thing that people always recommend is to go into kind of Facebook groups. So supposing you're asleep coach, you might go into Facebook groups for new parents or whatever, and that, that can be really helpful. But I think also if you can find any form of page community for that group of people, you'll get better quality information.

Um, from that. Uh, and it's not that you, uh, you know, it's often not appropriate to go into somebody else's page community and, you know, actively solicits clients, but you can still go in there and kind of loiter with intent and observe conversations, um, and go into the threads and really see what are people asking.

And I really advise people to go in like, and cut and paste, um, and create a document where you are noting any kind of pain points that keep coming. Any strong emotions at all, positive or negative. [00:22:00] And what kinds of specific questions are coming up and also other people's recommendations in the group.

So somebody says they have a problem with something. Then what are other people chiming in with recommendations? What have people tried before that hasn't worked? Why hasn't it worked? What are they frustrated about in that case? But also if you're going into a completely new area, things, things you can do the earth sort of slightly less obvious are for instance, find a book that has the same kind of approach to the problem.

And nonfiction book that has, is covering that topic. So supposing you want to be asleep coaches, something about, you know, getting babies to sleep or whatever. And then go into the Amazon reviews and the good reads reviews for those books and see what, you know, are people angry or disappointed because the book didn't cover a particular thing or are they delighted because it solved this particular problem for them or whatever.

So you can still, even if you can't find a community to hang out [00:23:00] in or as well as that, you can still, there are other ways to find out, you know, what, what is on people's minds. Um, and that can give you just so much. But you can do so many different things with, you know, that can be the basis of blog posts.

It can be the basis of, um, your sales copy. It can inform what you put into the offer itself. Um, and it can also give you all kinds of ideas about, you know, your whole kind of social media calendar. What kinds of questions you would want to ask people like, you know, in your Instagram stories and that kind of thing to delve a little bit deeper.

And then if you do want to work in a particular area, You probably do know somebody, even if you don't know hundreds of people who fit into the mold of the general kind of person that you do want to be working with. So another thing that's within the course. Yeah. Giving some guidance on how to have a conversation with that person where you don't.

It's very easy to ask people, very leading questions that [00:24:00] they just agree to politely. And you come out of the interview, having confirmed all your own biases rather than having actually found out what they're thinking. So understanding a little bit about how to not do that and how to be much more open in your questions and much more focused on.

What their experience is rather than trying to test your ideas out on them, which tends to be less helpful. Um, so yeah, there's a lot you can do to really dig into what people actually want and need. And then you can create an offer that solves that problem for them. 

Ellie: I mean, that's, that's brilliant and I've done some of those things.

Some of them intentionally and some not, some of them just happen naturally joining 

Sophy Dale: often entrepreneurs will, will do at least some of this just kind of instinctively, but it is amazing how spending, even if you just put aside, you know, a few hours. Um, to go in with [00:25:00] intention and go into some different groups and really try and keep an open mindset.

I'm just looking for emotions and questions. That's all I'm looking for. I don't have a preconceived idea of what my solution is going to be to that. Then you can suddenly start spotting patterns and. Also, some people just use amazing turns of phrase, which could be like the name of your new offer or, um, you know, the headline or, or whatever.

So that's also a good thing too. Keep your eye out for 

Ellie: definitely. Um, I think there's definitely something to be said for, and I think it's something that gets talked about, but I think actually doing it for someone who's not a writer like me is harder, but using. The language that your community uses is huge.

Sophy Dale: Massive cannot let you just can't overestimate how important that is if you can. And I actually think that people's mental block with it often is that it feels too easy. You know, you go through, you do your customer pasting, you make all the notes, and then people feel like they [00:26:00] need to kind of like rewrite.

But don't rewrite it keep like, you know, keep every single phrase in that. Um, as exactly as you possibly can and simply write the little bits that need to go in between to turn it into sentences and paragraphs. Um, but don't change anything otherwise you're, you're kind of destroying all that hard work.

Ellie: Yeah. You're ruining the magic of it. Right. And I think you're right. It's so easy to go. Oh, but that feels like cheating or, Ooh, I can't use exactly the word I saw in a group because what if they noticed. Yeah, or something like that. Or I had a tendency, especially at the beginning of my business to just fill things with like jargony terms or like, not necessarily super technical terms, but just like how many people in my world are like talking about.

Automation. Right. Like I had to started calling that like systems and processes. Cause nobody it's automated even if they are and they don't know it. 

Sophy Dale: Absolutely. And I think, I think that's another distinction that, um, I took back in the mind-reader [00:27:00] course is that the good jargon and bad jargon, so bad jargon is your kind of curse of the expert.

You already a too deep into your specialist. To notice when you're using your own jargon, however, your audience does have its own jargon people within your audience will describe things a certain way really consistently and have certain words and phrases and in-group phrases that they use. That's great.

Like put that everywhere because that makes people feel at home and like they found their people and that you understand them and you, you get where they're coming. And so one of the examples I often use is if you're a lawyer, your background is as a lawyer and you're selling legal templates, say to non-lawyers, then you want to avoid legal jargon in the way you're describing things, because your audience won't get it.

And it will feel kind of stuffy and exclusionary. However, if you're say a former lawyer, and you're now a career coach for lawyers [00:28:00] use all the legal doc and you like, because that's your audience. And they will think, oh, this person. Gets me, I will be able to talk to them and they'll understand what I'm talking about.

So jargon can be good or bad depending on how you're using it. Yeah. 

Ellie: That's, that's a really, really good point. The reason I use the word techie a lot, I would have never, probably really used that word. But the number of times in my work over the last few years that I've heard somebody say, oh, I'm just not techie.

I don't. Then I had to start using that word because I heard it constantly. It's how people. Refer to the fact that they want to run a business. They're really good at what they do, but the bits and bobs behind the scenes is not really there, James, right? 

Sophy Dale: Yeah. No, that's a great example. 

Ellie: So we already talked about some of the ways that you can find the, the verbiage or the problems to create more empathetic content, but are there any other tools or resources that you would point people to.

Sophy Dale: I think just you, it's not so much a tool or a resource. It's more that [00:29:00] once you switch on that bit of your brain, that's always looking for what copywriters would call voice of customer. So those phrases and words. It never really completely goes away once you're aware of it. Um, and once you are aware of it, just having like a even, you know, notes that you keep on your phone or some way of recording it, when you see it, because it's really frustrating if you, if you don't record it, when you see it.

And then like, you know, a couple of months later, you're coming to write a sales page or a blog post or something. You'd like, I know there was the perfect paragraph I saw. Somewhere, maybe it was in a forum. Maybe it was in that course group. Maybe it was in that community. I don't know where I saw it, but it was the perfect thing.

It expressed everything I needed to say, but I haven't noted it down. So it's not a tool. It's more a habit of if, if you do see something, some nice juicy phrase, comment, turn of phrase, [00:30:00] or somebody really expressing a question in a particularly vivid way or telling a little anecdote as part of that post about how they're so frustrated about X or Y and noted that.

There and then, and also no way you found it. Um, and if you can get into the habit of doing that, your future self will thank you. And you will never have to wonder what to write about for a blog post or a social media post or whatever ever again, because you can always just go back and pick one of those and then elaborate.

Ellie: Yeah. I need to get into a better habit of that. I do have a note. I keep on my phone, that's like content ideas, and some of those do come from experience or questions I've seen or whatever, or just a new feature, maybe coming out with Squarespace or something. But so I have a note of content ideas, but actually having that file of all the things would be really, really useful as you kind of, especially at the, this, I guess, a level of business where.

Going from that one to [00:31:00] mini Mo one to many model in a way. Um, and sales are something I actually sort of have to do when you're really good as a one-to-one service provider. I found you don't really have to sell much. You just get referrals. It's sort of sorted. So yeah, having the words is going to be more and more important than minus.

Sophy Dale: Yeah, for sure. 

Ellie: Yeah. And I assume in many of people listening, I know a lot of our listeners, I know where they're at in business and they're kind of in this place where I don't know how many of them are writing, like detailed sales pages, but they are thinking, okay, how do I write that blog post what's going into that newsletter?

How do I create that social media posts? And. Do you have, and you've kind of touched on it, but are there any suggestions you have for weaving that empathy, empathetic, those empathetic language pieces into those pieces into 

Sophy Dale: the, uh, the first thing I would say is I would front load them within the content or the sales page or wherever it is you're going to use them ultimately, [00:32:00] because you want to, with any piece of writing, You know, we're all busy.

We all are drowning in information and emails and all the things. And especially when people are reading online that they can click away from your piece in seconds, a fraction of a second. And so the very first thing you have to do in any new piece of writing is establish a connection and establish relevance.

Uh, people, um, and then after that you can go on to do all kinds of other, you know, fun and great things. But until people have decided that what you have to say is relevant to them and feel some kind of connection, then they'll just click away and go to something else. So I would say if you, if you have got, you know, a killer phrase or you're really starting to understand that the language that people use to describe their.

Put that within the first paragraph of whatever it is, you're writing, whether it's a blog post or a sales page or whatever, because then people will see it early and kind of recognize themselves and they'll feel [00:33:00] kind of seen and heard by. And there'll be like, okay, this person, I'm going to see what this person's solution to my problem is because I now believe that they understand the problem.

Right. Because they've used my words to describe it. 

Ellie: Yeah. And it just kind of pulled out along a little bit. So that could be in the first paragraph of a newsletter, or even as a snippet of it as the subject line, the first sentence of. A social media post, et cetera. So just kind of ...

Sophy Dale: Exactly. So just front load, it just put it as, as near to the beginning, as you reasonably can while still making sense.

Um, so that people immediately get that kind of jolt of recognition. Yeah. 

Ellie: That's really, really helpful. Thank you. So kind of bringing it back to you, tell us what your biggest win so far in business has been. 

Sophy Dale: I think to be honest, my biggest win is that I'm still in business. And, you know, um, when I first had my daughter, for instance, I was just so [00:34:00] thrown as to how to have a business and also have a baby and no.

Not going to stay in and still be able to serve by chance and so on. And this last 18 months, although my business is course a completely online business. And in that sense wasn't affected by the pandemic at all. Suddenly having to oversee virtual homeschooling. Every day, instead of waving your child off to school and belt, seeing them, you know, six or seven hours.

Um, so I think my biggest one is just the resiliency of still being here in business, having a business and really not having clients. I really love and not having led to any of those kinds of outside forces. I mean, it just started to seem too hard or find a way around the issues that came up. So yeah, still being here.

That's my big one. And 

Ellie: I love that. I love that so much because I think business is hard, but also business is flexible and sometimes that can mean it's [00:35:00] flexible enough to get us through times like a pandemic, but it also sometimes means like, wow, running a business in a pandemic. Well, homeschooling is some days feels next to impossible.

So I think that that's a huge, um, just acknowledging that you've overcome hurdles and obstacles and periods that felt overwhelming and you're still killing it. Like it's still going real well. And then what would you say has been your biggest mistake or learning experience while in business or developing your business?

Sophy Dale: I think for me, I should probably have focused on one business sooner. You know, I kept juggling the different businesses or longer than really made sense to cause I just couldn't quite bear to like every time I thought about shutting, either of them down, I couldn't quite let go or, you know, and you dream client for that business would just pop up at that exact moment.

That'd be like, well, of course, I'm going to have to do this thing with that. [00:36:00] Um, and so, um, I think my biggest learning has been that the more I simplify, the more I focus on just doing a few things well, the better everything else is, but it's really hard. Entrepreneurs are shiny object to people. You know, we like new things.

We like variety. I don't know many entrepreneurs who are truly consistently drawn to just sticking to the thing they know, and that they know they can do really well. You know, we all just are like, Ooh, but what have I also did this? So it's, it is really hard to have that discipline, but. It's also really fulfilling to do something really, really well that, you know, going in there, you're going to be able to do it really well.

And you know, you're going to get the result for the client that they want without that kind of adrenaline burst of, I don't know how I'm going to make this happen, but somehow I'm going to make it, you know, I'll pull it off. Um, which is, you know, a lot of our [00:37:00] experiences entrepreneurs, especially in the early years is like, Okay.

I said, I would do that now. I can have to find a way of doing that. Um, so yeah, I think there's, there's definitely. Yeah. And I kind of rush to that newness, but I think I'm really valuing the simplicity of sticking to things that I already know. Really work. 

Ellie: Yeah, I totally get that. I'm also sort of struggling with that because I've decided to go the other way.

I had one business now I have two and I'm trying to keep the two separate, but they have almost the same audience. I'm trying to keep my systems simple enough that I am sharing some of the social media for them. I'm also trying to keep the offerings in both of them as simple as possible for my sanity, but it still feels a little bit like a lot.

So I'm in the process of figuring out how to make that happen, because as much as honestly, like I do love designing people's websites, but it's [00:38:00] not the thing for me. Like when I get to the capable collective, like once it's thriving, The calibrator concepts will cease to be, but I just, it's the thing paying the bills right now.

So a lot of focus goes there. 

Sophy Dale: Yeah. And I think I've worked with quite a few clients who have had to go through that transition period where they have a business that is working in, is bringing in the money and is, you know, they could just do that for the rest of their lives and know that they had an income stream and so on, but they have a thing they really want to do.

Which is going to take time to build. And in the meantime, they have to do both. Um, and it, it just is a tight rope. Um, it's and I think, you know, you have to be super intentional about how you're spending your time and how you're kind of investing your time. So in your case for the capable collective, a lot of what you're doing now is big upfront investment of time that you're taking away from.

The web design business that could just be paying you money for that [00:39:00] time. Um, and so, you know, it is hard to get your head around. Okay. So I am not going to spend today being quite well-paid to design somebody's website and said, I'm going to spend a day not being paid at all to build the audience for my other business.

Um, and that's, you know, it takes a lot of getting your head around that. And then it takes a lot of being really thoughtful about. How that ratio works. So you still are bringing in enough money whilst you're in that transitional phase. 

Ellie: And it's sort of a roller coaster in a way, because I obviously the, there there's these busy seasons in business getting started very busy season.

And I finally got established. I had simplified my business that I could make pretty good money on three days a week. And then it was a combination of passion plus being locked in a house for too long. And boredom. I can't can't deny the pandemic has influenced the some, but yeah. And so now I have to [00:40:00] understand that building a second business will be also a season of busy-ness.

Yeah. But I'm trying to do it a lot more mindfully than the first round of busy-ness. 

Sophy Dale: Yeah. Um, and I think that if you can bring enough attention intention into that process, It's all completely doable, but you just, you have to stay on it. Otherwise you can drift into either just not earning any money for several months, because you're so focused on building audience or the reverse, you know, you own quite a lot of money, but you tell them, you turn around and realize that you haven't done any of the audience building that you were intending to do.

Ellie: Yeah, it is. It is. You're right. It's that tight rope. All right. So are you working on anything exciting? 

Sophy Dale: Uh, I've got a couple of things coming up my own mastermind group, which is a six month small group mastermind. And I absolutely love working with small groups of women on their businesses. It's my [00:41:00] favorite thing.

Um, I love one to one work, but what I really like about the mastermind is I still do some one-to-one work with people within it, but there's also that group dynamic and that kind of. Women supporting women and people becoming advocates for one, all this business and referring work to one another and helping people to, you know, think through their problems and so on.

And that, that energy that you get from a group of people who are all trying to do the same thing at the same time together is just. It's such a lovely thing to be part of. So, um, that's, that's what I'm excited about 

Ellie: group programs and things I've been in have been the most impactful thing for that for the same reason.

Sophy Dale: And that, for instance, I was saying earlier that, you know, peer masterminds are really important to me now, everybody that I'm in peer mastermind with is somebody that I was previously in a, a group course with, uh, some nature or another. It's how you find those people that can be like your business buddies for the rest of your life.[00:42:00] 

Um, so yeah, I'm really excited about that review. Looking forward to that stuff, it's 

Ellie: going to be really cool. I can't wait to see more about. And then where can people find you? 

Sophy Dale: Uh, so I, um, online@sophiedale.com, which is S a P H Y D a L e.com. And I am these days, mostly on LinkedIn or social media. Um, I'm at the point of recording this interview.

I'm dabbling with being back on Instagram after a year and a bit of not being on Instagram or facing. Uh, so that's been really interesting, but what, whether by the time this interview comes out, I will still be there as a, up for debate at the moment. So, um, that's probably the, website's the best place to find me.

And I also host a free community on mighty networks. That people can find under the community tab on my website. Um, and that's another good place to stay in touch and stay on the newsletter. 

Ellie: So I'm in that free community. [00:43:00] It's a pretty cool place to be. We've had a little bit of a quiet summer, but I imagine things are going to be coming back and I'm pretty stoked for it.

Yeah. So it's definitely a cool place to be. If you. It's filled with designers, um, both web and not copywriters, all sorts of people, all sorts of professions at this stage. It's pretty cool place to be. 

Sophy Dale: I'm really trying to decide at the moment whether to open it up to just entrepreneurs more generally, because I keep having people asking to join who are not part of the.

Wipe design brand photographer kind of world, which is why initially set up, intending it to be. Um, and so, yeah, I'm still debating as to whether to make it a bit of a broader thing. Just have anybody who is in business wants to do business in a particular way, be in there instead. So 

Ellie: I'll definitely check it out, especially if you're.

The world of like design photography and such. And if not, you can still take a look and see what Sophie's made the decision there around that exact time, [00:44:00] but it's going to be, it's a really cool place to be. I really like. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. Sophie we've w your there's so many nuggets of wisdom in there.

Um, I will definitely be pulling parts of those for social media. Thank you so much. 

Sophy Dale: Uh, thank you for having me lovely to chat.

Ellie: Thank you for listening to the capable collective podcast. I really hope you enjoy this episode and if gotten value from it, if you did, please subscribe on your chosen listening classes. And if you happen to be listening over on apple podcasts, please take a moment to leave a review. It helps other people to find and trust this podcast.

And it would mean the world to me, this episode was edited by Emily Crosby media. She's amazing to work with. And if you are looking to start a podcast or for some practical media solutions, definitely check [00:45:00] her out. Thank you so much. Again, have a great day.