Podcast S2:E5 - Rest, Boundaries, & Self-trust with Mel Wiggins

You can connect with the freaking incredible and wise Mel Wiggins over on Instagram or on her website!

Show notes:

(Please note that these are computer generated and therefore imperfect).

Ellie: Welcome to the capable collective podcast, a place for women who want to ditch the overwhelm and learn to run their business with ease. I'm your host, Ellie McBride. And I firmly believe that as women and non-binary folks, we are best as a collective. So together with my expert guests, we are sharing the tools, systems and ethos behind a simple yet thriving business.

This season, we are talking all about working with your natural rhythms and the episodes will be coming out every other Wednesday. I'm so excited to dive into topics like working with your menstrual cycle. Living with lunar cycles, living seasonally, working from a place of rest and creating boundaries and so much more ready to dive in.

Let's go. 

Hello everyone. We are here today with Mel Wiggins.  If you've been following me for any amount of time, you'll see that Mel and I's worlds are really intertwined. It started when I was working, she hired me as a virtual assistant and then I joined her community and we've, since then it's gotten even more  melded on each other's businesses and lives.

 And I'm really excited because Mel just has such a wealth of really, I don't know the word I want to use. Like some, like it's so soulful and peaceful in the way that she brings her, her information and her insights. So I'm really excited to dive in and have you guys hear from her? 

So let's get started.

Let's start with, where are you from? 

Mel: Well  I am from right here where I am sitting  which I'm sure is unusual for lots of your guests. I'm sure. Probably from lots of other exotic places or whatever, but I'm from right here in Puerto dine in Northern Ireland, but by way of about 12 years spent living in Canada and a small town in Ontario and a little stint in London, England as well, but have returned home to my roots.

Ellie: Very cool. So can you tell me your preferred pronouns? 

Mel: She and her. 

Ellie: Awesome. And when did you start your business? 

Mel: Okay, so assembly  is the business that I run.  It started well its first kind of iteration. The first version of assembly started in 2016 in the autumn of 2016. 

Ellie: And so tell me a little bit about why you started assembly back then almost.

Mel: Oh my gosh. Almost five years ago. 

Isn't that right? I know it is crazy every, every year, just kind of snakes rind, and I'm like, Oh, it's been four years. Oh, it's been five years. It's just really just kind of wild to me how quickly that time passes, but essentially assembly.  I started, I was working in the nonprofit sector for my whole life and  since I came out of university and all the rest of that, so like a good decade or more of working in nonprofit and I was really, and I always have had little creative outlets on the side of my nonprofit work.

 Those have massively varied  never really stuck, but I was really creative on the community that, that kind of thing brought. I was really creative and being in spaces with other women who love to take beautiful pictures and love to create things and have cool ideas and grit style and like nice things.

And all of the stuff that I, you know, that you see on Instagram and all these people that you've made connections with on Instagram, but never really get to hang out with. And I was just like, hi, can I make all of these people, my friends  and I just really needed something for myself. I really needed something that I could create that would bring people together.

So that's how I assembly started as an event. So I decided to reach out to some women that I'd met on Instagram, that I admired, that I really enjoyed seeing snippets of their life and their work, whether they were designers or photographers or stylists or bloggers or whatever. And so I reached out to them to see if they'd be interested in like doing something together, maybe dinner and a workshop and some sort of creative space and went to, by making that happen with a lot of help from other women who helped me actually put the, the meat on the bones of my idea, which seems to be a theme for me  that I need other women to put the meat on the bones of my, my ideas.

So, yeah, so that's kind of high assembly started. It was  back in 2016 in the autumn, we had a beautiful dinner. There was about 12 or 15 of us  and an orchard outside the time that I live in because it's Apple, it's Apple day. And so the orchards are just gorgeous in the autumn. And  we set up a big long table in the middle of this Apple farm and had dinner and Mia.

Some like creative things and just talked around the campfire and it was absolutely magical. It's really, really special night. And that kind of set the whales of assembly in motion. And it has literally just been iteration after iteration. And as I've learned more about these women and learn more about what, what women are missing  in terms of support and community, and trying to kinda create assembly as a point for support and community.

Yeah. 

Ellie: That's amazing. I I've seen, you know, photos and stuff of that first event and I've been to some of the leader events and they're just so beautiful. Like not just aesthetically, but they're just, so there is something absolutely incredible when you get enough. Well, you get a bunch of women together and they're just there to be there.

They're there to enjoy the food and enjoy the company. Yeah, the food is always really good. 

Mel: Oh, that's like my most favorite thing about the whole thing. Because as we know when you're like running around events, you just you're you're so  you're so busy. You don't have anyone who'd runs events will tell you this, you don't really get to enjoy it, but I tell you what I do enjoy is the food.

And I enjoy  getting to bring the food home after as well. Such a. Yeah. And I always make sure that, you know, for those events, we would have hired all women caterers and try to bring in everything is local and a seasonal as possible and hire women to do the workshops and to style and to photograph things.

Definitely. Yeah. So that's that's, that was kind of the initial. Start a WIOA assembly was kind of based around was these big events. And then it just really, it kind of quickly grew into this community of women who were seeking more so around the table, you'd be hearing conversations about like what they're finding difficult and, you know, they're getting in touch with me with different questions about things.

And  I was finding myself learning more about why women hold back so much and why we, we don't really go after the, the desires that we have and what's in our way and all of that stuff. And I was like, these women need to hear this. And so I started to do  events that were more based on mindsets stuff and kind of giving space to those conversations more intentionally rather than allowing them to happen naturally at dinners and things.

So this was more about like intentionally having space where I would come and like teach  share ideas and get them to talk. And. Then that evolved into, okay, let's see if we can try and do this somehow virtually so that we have a space online that women can meet, not just at these big events, but actually every day they can check in with each other and I can provide resources and support in some way.

So that turned into a membership community. And then I realized that there were like deeper needs that some women needed and like more intense work that they wanted today. And so I created a couple of intensive group programs and then have done some one-to-one coaching on the side of that as well. So it's kind of evolved really naturally based on just really listening to what women are dealing with and what we, what we really feel stuck in and all of that.

So I love to be able to say solutions or support. For those kinds of things. 

Ellie: I think that that's something in general that is sort of a superpower of yours. Like really being an intuitive listener in that sense. Like that's something I would struggle with quite a lot.  And it's just so cool to see, cause I've been working with you now for  Oh gosh, I don't even know two, two and a half years.

Mel: It must be over two years now. Yeah. 

Ellie: And just like seeing the business evolve from being like, you know, the membership and the coaching and to all of this amazing stuff that you're doing, but at the same time you've offered more without over-complicating it seems like you've found a really good balance with a lot of that.

Mel: So a year to thank for that. And we're going to get to that. I'm sure. 

Ellie: I think that's sort of where we balance each other out is that you sometimes need people to help you put. Meat on the bones of things. And I really am the, the, the person who's good at that. And I need people to help me with big picture.

Like I cannot brain just gets so like there's too many options in the 

Mel: overall me. I know it's been so good. I think we've worked super well together, especially considering that you and I are both very similar and like we're both any ground ones. So we both are kind of perfectionist. And I think, you know, I was even who was I talking to about this recently?

 Another like entrepreneur friend of mine, and I was telling him a bite. Yay. Cause he's, he's looking at hiring someone that has business. And I was, and he's also interested in Annie Graham. And I was saying like, you know, on paper it might seem like two, any ground ones would work really well together because we're, we're both really focused on our thing.

We're focused on. Getting it right where, you know, sometimes really afraid to make mistakes.  And that can sometimes in a working together situation on paper, look like it would be trouble. But actually I think it, because any ground ones have such strong inner critics, I think we're just super aware of that for each other.

And that makes it really lovely if we need to like give feedback. We're just so aware that like, I know how she could interpret this. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to make sure that she knows how much I appreciate her, but also you missed this thing and Mel, you're not, you know, you need to do this.

 All of that I think is yeah. 

Ellie: Yeah. It's really in the fact that we understand each other, we're both. I think the perfectionist thing really works really well with your brand because. Not that other brands aren't, but I think that your brand is so specific. And so getting the language right, getting the, the colors and the themes and everything right.

 Is really important across the different places that you do business in the different ways you do business.  So I think both of us being really attuned to that and being kind of aesthetics, like matter.  But also you're right. Like we both being editor and ones like we, our own, like, we are so hard on ourselves.

Totally. We would never be as mean to anybody else as I am to myself. Like I would never hold anybody else to the standard. Sorry. I think it is a little bit easier to be kinder to other people when you know that you're that hard to yourself. 

Mel: Oh, yeah. Especially in other anti-crime one, you just know that is the same.

You hear the same voices when you do stuff. So I totally, I totally appreciate that. You know, I appreciate that. We work really well together in that way, but yeah, that's, that's kind of how I assembly has, has established. 

Ellie: So tell me about, like, we've talked a lot about what assembly is, but tell me what you love about it.

You've talked a little bit about that, but let's like add its core. Like, what do you love about your  I really, really love my work. I really do. And I feel so lucky to say that I really do.  You know, sometimes I'll come off a call. With one of my groups or, you know, in the membership and just like take a big breath and be like, Oh, I get to spend my days, like in the wades of other women's brilliant ideas on their plans.

Mel: And it's such an honor to do that  to like help them like extract things from themselves and then feel bold enough to try it.  I love helping them mix sense of strategy and I help, you know, I love helping them plan and help, help them kind of see where their self-doubt is stemming from and build new beliefs and all of that kind of stuff.

 I absolutely love that. And I think probably the group work is my favorite is, is absolutely my favorite. So like creating spaces and outlets for women to feel really safe  is probably my most magical. Thing that I love about this work.  When you, when you get  particularly I was afraid of moving stuff online and I did that way before pandemic world, but there was, I had some resistance to it because I know the magic of women meeting in real life, you know, like around a table or in a workshop space or whatever.

I know how absolutely utterly dreamy that feels. And I was like, Oh, I don't want to lose that. But I tell you what women bring that wherever they go, they really do. And I love creating containers for them to feel safe, to talk. I, the really tough stuff and really ambitious stuff. Like, I love that. I love.

Being able to create CF places and conversations of bite ambition on a bite money and a bite women, you know, taking control of their lives or finding par in certain areas that they hadn't before and all of that kind of thing. So yeah, the group stuff is really magical for me. That's what I love the most.

Ellie: Yeah. And I've been fortunate enough to be a part of many of those safe spaces. And you really create this place where like the power of vulnerability when you get those women together. And I would say like, I owe a lot of where I am in business to having done the, gone through and done the work with you  to, to figuring out how I want to simplify this business.

And my. Vision for what I want to eventually create into the capable collective. Again, I have no idea how to get it there yet. I'm working on it like so much because I've invested the time into these programs with you and I will forever be grateful for that. Hmm. 

Mel: That's so, so amazing to hear, but you know, you said it like you did the work as well, Ellie, you know, I can create these spaces, but it takes a willingness on a, you know, someone who is really intent, you know, really intent on making things happen for themselves, because I'll tell you what, what, what coaching isn't is someone telling you what to do and make a new idea.

That's never going to be a sustainable way to do or run a business that feels true to you.  You have to own it and you have to take up for yourself.  And you did that. So, 

Ellie: yeah, it was hard and scary. And there were tears. I mean, not that that's a surprise, like anybody who knows me knows like, right, like friends, you both.

I, if I'm not between probably like a four and a six on the emotional scale. I agree.

Mel: I love a good cry. I am just all about a cry. I love a cry. Yeah. 

Ellie: I want to talk a bit about the systems and the help that you have to make your business work because you, like we said, you have a few different parts of your business moving bits all the time. You've kind of scaled up from being like a ten-year blogger and to this beautiful business that you have that supports at this stage, like hundreds of women.

 And yeah. So how have you, what have you used to help you get there? 

Mel: So. In my notes. I wrote that I have you, I have used you. Yes, but really, I mean, I will start there because that's super important and it does speak to a lot of what else I want to say about this idea of help that I have in my business.

But I'm so grateful to have someone like ELA. Who's just like you, you sit in this expert genius space of making sense of all the moving parts for me. And I think that that is something that's massively important for women to know when they are trying to build a business, is that you, you can vacate lots of things, but there are other people who are going to be better than you at some parts of your business.

And you need to bring them in if you can, but I've learned so, so much from ye  by all kinds of. Kind of behind the scenes, things that I would never have figured out by myself, or it would have taken me a long time to figure it out by myself because you know, there are always things that you can do and, and you can figure out and you can try, but just aren't in your wheelhouse of your most fulfilling or profitable skills, I guess.

So in terms of help, I have Hugh who does all of that brilliant stuff that frees me up to actually be myself  be myself more and more and more in my business. We also have  a new, a new aspect to our membership. And this is something that I want to continue to build into assembly is more people who can specialize in things.

And because I am not, I am not a, an expert in all of the things. I know what I'm good at. But  I'm not an expert in all the things that I want these women to have.  So one of the things we started to do last year was bring someone into the, like the mental health aspect of, of being a woman who wants to build courage and go after her desires, because it it's, it it's a massive, it's a massive part of being capable, you know?

Ellie: Yeah, absolutely. Like running a business is not easy stuff like, or, or whatever you're tasting. Like it may not be a business, but following your dreams is kind of the harder path in a lot of ways. It's the more fulfilling path, but it's not always easy mentally and emotional. 

Mel: No, absolutely not. And so one of my best friends is in her last year of training to be a thera, a therapist.

And she's just one of the wisest people. I know she's got such a brilliant insight and way of talking about mental health and the stuff that comes up for us. And. So I've been able to bring her in to help with some of that, by doing some sessions on anxiety and stress and sleep and healthy habits and stuff.

And I'm really looking forward to that. I continue, I book regular coaching for myself for accountability or for strategizing, because it can be lonely work. I have a therapist that I see every other week and that I consider essential to running my business. And my husband is my big keeper and he keeps he's like keeps things right in the financial department.

I know everything that's going on there, but he does the math because that's also not my wheelhouse and I have loads of help in, you know, regular world times and that my kids are in school. And  I have really hands-on family that are that help with childcare when, when they need to  I have someone that helps with cleaning my house and all of those things I massively consider to be crucial to me being able to run a business.

Yeah. 

Ellie: Yeah. I feel that, I feel that I am desperately missing my cleaner right now. Like we only started investing in that shortly before the pandemic, but  it's something that like those little things free up your head space, not only just your husband, but you know, when I cleaned my house, I clean it like bits, you know, I'll tidy up the kitchen and I'll scrub the bathroom, but having somebody where it's literally top to bottom cleaned.

You know, it's, don't have to think about it. And again, it's in their expertise, so it's cleaner than my clean, 

Mel: or of course, although I will also, you know, be judgy about it because I'm an Enneagram one perfectionist, but I've got, I've actually gotten over that and I'm just so grateful that I don't have to do it.

And so on. I can pay someone else and other woman who, you know, that's her thing. Yeah. So all of those things, like all that, like I like the therapist and the coaches and the, you know, like, I think it's really important that we talk about the kind of help that we have as well, because you can look in on somebody's life and be like, how does she manage to do that?

Or why does she seem to get things done? I get things done because I have a lot of people helping me. Truly  I don't ever want that to be mysterious for anybody or ambiguous, you know? 

Ellie: Yeah, definitely. I think that you've set up like a really good support system around yourself. Professionally. And otherwise that have, that really, you know, builds you up that way.

And I've talked about on other episodes, but I've have other similar things in mind, you know, business. And the one thing that you remember you were talking about really quick is that I have this like thing that you were talking about. And when you were talking about how long it can take you to learn.

 And I remember being on a call and I think you were on the call, there was a beautiful woman maker. And she was talking about how long it taught. It, took her to learn, to build her own website and to learn, to build her own website. She said, it took her six weeks to get like a pretty basic website up.

And I was just thinking like, 

Mel: yeah, 

Ellie: while that's incredibly valid. And if you want to learn that, and it's something that's going to really serve you down wine. Great. But also I was just, I spent the time thinking, like, I could have made that for you in like two weeks. And you could have had everything you ever needed and never had to worry about it again.

Mel: I know, I know it is. 

Ellie: You have to, we, we go realms on this, but the whole, like choosing where to invest your time, energy and money is something that is something that I talk about, I think on almost every episode of this podcast. 

Mel: Yeah, absolutely. I talk about it almost every day. It's just such a big thing to get your head around.

And I also recognize that, you know, for years literal years, I figured that out myself, you know, like for years I did. And I think that there are stages of your, of your journey, where it's really good to kind of learn in that way. And I know you're a real, you're a real advocate for that. And that is something that the capable collective is really all a byte is helping women to feel capable, to be able to tackle like, to Google and figure out like, how do I start a podcast?

How do I.  Create a meal in less time. I do, I create a freebie, how do I, do you know, how can I design this? Of course, I think when you're really starting out in those first kind of whatever months, years, it's so empowering to be able to do that yourself. Yeah. And to be able to figure that out. 

Ellie: I also think that like, how are you going to know which parts of business you really want to dive into and really like, as opposed to what you're going to want to outsource until you're right.

Absolutely. Yeah. That's edited season one of this podcast, myself thinking, Oh, I've got this really cool software and it does all this stuff. And then I was like, audio mixing is not my forte. I'm going to get someone else to do this for me. 

Mel: Yes, absolutely. I think, yeah. And I think then as your business grows, you realize that there's, you know, if you're adding different things into it, you know, that you don't have capacity to like, take that extra thing on because you are in a grave and you're in a rhythm of the things that.

Really, really work for you and make you feel most alive in your work. All right. 

Ellie: So what simple systems are you using to do business with ease? 

Mel: Okay. You know, I was very resistant to Essana to begin with when you first introduced this to me, I was like, what the hell is this thing? I don't like to not be an expert immediately, Allie.

So I was like, why is she making me do this?  But not, I love her much and I'm all like, Oh, I'm going to create myself a task. And then I'm just going to tick it off. It's that whole satisfaction, you know, like you get on paper, but it's yeah. And it's so organized and you have absolutely showed me how to keep our team organized in that way.

And I love that, you know, in terms of practical systems, I love acuity. I didn't love it at first because it didn't feel pretty. And I like aesthetics, but I do love acuity for scheduling, for taking payments, especially for group programs and things like that. We use member space for my membership community.

And then we integrate that into my Squarespace website, which means that I get to talk about how much I love Squarespace, because it is so easy and ditto, if I'm just tinkering a bite, like you mostly take care of my website, but I know that I can, if I want to immediately just like tech, you know, like I can literally just take something off myself.

I don't need to wait for a web designer or a coder to come in and do something. I just love the autonomy of that. Yeah. 

Ellie: And I mean, you did your initial website yourself. Like I redesigned it semi recently, but like you've got all of that skill too, you know, that you built in, in the early stages of your, of your business.

Mel: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just did one. I just have like a new podcast that came out.  On Monday and I built a little basic website for that. 

Ellie: I know I was really excited. I'll have to ask you later because I want to hear about your experience with 7.1. Cause that was probably your first time using the new. 

Mel: it was  yeah, it was, it was nice.

And I just, I loved the simplicity of it was really nice. And then I use convert kit for my email software and I kept like, what else do we use? I can't even, 

Ellie: Oh, like that, that's the bulk of what we use every day. 

Mel: They're the big ones. Right. And Canva of course has been, Oh, Oh gosh, no. 

Ellie: I actually spent some time in your Canva account yesterday, organizing everything and I woke up.

Well, I wasn't asleep as I was falling asleep last night, my brain went to think Canva folders can have some folders. And so like Googled it and they can, that's part of my work next week. 

Mel: I love that this is the case. I know shit that you'd like, your brain is thinking about it before you go to bed. They like, my brand is going, why can't I sleep?

I wonder if my kids will wake up, why can't I sleep? Why can't I sleep? I shouldn't have drank that extra glass of wine. I can't sleep. And you're like, Ooh, how can I organize you? You need a white 

Ellie: noise app. Cause I woke up at about 3:00 AM. My brain thought, Oh my gosh, it's gotta be like six. Right? So you're going to have to get up soon.

So don't get too asleep. My brain kept doing this to me. And so I turned on my white noise app and it just like my brain just drowns out those like little things. It gives your brain something to do other than circling.

Mel:  I might try that. It's very helpful. But yes, to our space convert kit, Assana ECU at a member space.

All those things have been brilliant tools. 

Ellie: For sure. Let's get to like our actual topic today because our rapid fire round was a little lengthy, but that's cool. Yeah. We don't like to talk to each other. So today we're talking a lot about your work around arrest and boundaries and self-trust, can you tell us a bit about, Hmm.

Mel: Well, I think the crux of this, this whole, yeah. So I talk, I talk a lot in half done recently, especially because of the year we've come out of, and this, you know, the world that we continue to exist in, which has all kinds of parameters on pressures. I talk a lot about high for modern women, for women of certain generation, my age area, age, like most of us have kind of grown up.

Seeing that women can do much more in the world than they used to. And we kind of have been told that we have this, this opportunity to do, to have a brilliant career and a brilliant family life. And  you know, you can do both of those things and you can also, you know, have your own business and you can also have a side hobby and you can look at all these cool things that you can have.

And then we get into that world and we try to do all of those things. And then we realize that, Oh shit, like, actually I can't do it all because nothing around me is set up to support me to do that. Right. Right. So the systems that we live in do not support us to thrive. And so we're in this real crunch of.

Almost like having all of this opportunity ahead of us looking at us, going, come and get me, look at this ambition. You can, you can make amazing money. You can be the breadwinner in your family. You can build a business that you love, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then also don't do that because that would mean that you're neglecting your family.

 You, you know, you have to set out years of your life to do that. And you know, all of the, all of that kind of stuff. So I have such a strong desire to, first of all, help women to not feel so alone and wondering why they're so burnt out, why they're so tired, why they're so restless, why they're so annoyed and like enriched with the world.

I have this desire to be like, like get them by the face and be like, it's not you, it's the systems. It's not you, you know, like, I don't, I don't want you to think that it's you. We've just been lied to. So I have this real desire to dispel that myth and then also give women the tools to take ownership over the places that they can to be brave and courageous in setting boundaries for themselves and investing in themselves and trusting themselves so that they can really move towards their desires in a sustainable way that keeps their sanity and their integrity in place and on their ambition and desires.

So  that's why I talk about that because I feel like we've been lied to, and, and we need to, we need to women to know that that's the case, that it's not, it's nothing that they're doing wrong. They just operate in a world that isn't set up to support them. Yeah. And also to challenge those systems as well in some way.

So, and this is so important for us to know, because. Like for women to be able to make the money that they deserve to make in order for them to, you know, have the opportunities that they deserve to help them create the worlds that they know are going to be better than the shit ones that men have created.

We need the space to be able to make money and do those things.  When we're too tired from trying to do everything, we just can't do that. Yeah.  And so I'm, I'm really, yeah. I feel like it all links back to  supporting women to look after themselves as their greatest asset. And then also challenging the systems that don't support us.

Ellie: Absolutely. Yeah. I think you're right. We've had that, that you can do it and have it all lie and society is just not there yet.  And a lot of my friends, family. Acquaintances people that I kind of associate with are doing their bit to kind of push the boundaries forward  for more equity, more equality for women, and as well as for, you know, other marginalized groups, as well as, you know, the whole intersection and it just gets, it gets, there's so many people that need to have more of a, say more of a seat at the table and a leg up on the fact that rich white men have had all the power for a very, very, very, very long time.

Yeah. 

Mel: And they have not done well with that par, so let's have, let's have a go at another way of doing things and, but that's not going to be, that's not going to be something that's easily challenged because for a capitalist, you know, racist, patriarchy, challenging, any of that is gonna disrupt everything.

And I know that I'm here for that and all of the small on the big ways, for sure, but also mostly here for, for women building their own capacity in it. 

Ellie: Yeah. I mean, that's where your passion and your work lies. Yeah. 

Mel: Yeah. 

Ellie: So tell us about a few ways that we can improve our relationships to rest and boundaries.

Mel: Hmm. So like one of the things that I'm loath to do is to make the idea of improving our relationships to rest and boundaries. Another to-do list for women like, "Oh no, I'm not doing my self-care. I haven't done my rest." This is not something that we do. It's something we become. And, but there are things that are super beneficial for women, and that has shown to really increase our ability to, to rest and not be burnt out and not feel so alone and frazzled. And some of those things are things like really noticing and accepting our capacity, not just as women, not because we're women, but because we're human beings, because human beings actually do have capacities. 

Yes, there are limits to the things that our bodies and our minds can handle and tick.

And we sometimes just need to be people that acknowledge that and acknowledge that there are seasons of our life where things are quieter and are kind of growing under grind. And there are seasons of our life where we are. We have more energy and space to kind of action things and be in the zone. Part of the coming to pace with ourselves is.

Is recognizing when those are happening. I think an ally in them to happen and not by calling them. And then also just like the cycles of our body, like, like at what point in the, in the month am I, am I really needing to hibernate? And then I really needing to not be Coles for myself. Am I really needing to am just like, get my head into research and learning.

 So that's kind of one thing is just really acknowledging and noticing those things. The second thing is real is really understanding nuance self-care so of course, all of the things that we associate with self care are good.  But they're also. I find largely connected with marketing, you know, like, yeah, buy this fist cream or buy this candle.

And I love all that stuff. We just talked about like skincare for 10 minutes before we got on this call. Yeah. So, you know, I love all that stuff, but the neons of self-care is actually like what nourishes she like, what? And that can be, that could be your work, you know, that could be making sure that you're moving your body in some way.

It could be that you get time with people that really know you. Like those kinds of things that really nourish us is what self-care is. So understanding that and trying to get creative about how to bring that into our lives and then advocating for ourselves. So that means talking about setting boundaries with people, having hard conversations, which I know are hard.

But important and advocating for a new set of systems. So when there's an opportunity to put your voice or your name or your signature to things that are going to make a difference for women  people who are marginalized that we do that  and we feel empowered to do that. And then also research has showed that having honest CF joyful community is actually regenerative for us.

So when we feel depleted in our actual bodies being in joyful community, so in a group of people where you feel CF and there is, there is something joyful happening, actually regenerates ourselves in our actual physical body, which is so cool. Yeah. 

Ellie: That's like magic. 

Mel: That's magic, right? It's physiological magic.

And  so those are kind of the kind of things that I. I'm always on the lookout for, for myself and always encourage another woman to consider, you know? 

Ellie: Yeah. In your sphere and some in spheres that, you know, and other spheres and just kind of growing up a little bit more too, but just starting to find those things are so individual.

I don't know if I realized for a long time that like self care looked so different for each person, you know, we're self-involved as humans. So I was like, what works for me works for everybody. Yeah. Why don't you try yoga so important to kind of find what, what truly works for you? Definitely. And, and to be, I think, kinder to yourself.

Cause one of the things that really works for me is like time with my friends time with especially my best friends and like, that's just not really a thing that I get to have in person. 

Mel: And yeah, right now we've got to be creative about, so like being. Not, not really. Okay. 

Ellie: But I guess giving myself grace around the fact that I'm not as okay as I want to be that as an Instagram one, we taught you kind of, you talked about this, but my capacity, like I normally am a really like high functioning on the light task side of life.

Right. Maybe not another areas, 

Mel: but at the task you get a lot of shit done and you can manage it. 

Ellie: But so like being okay with the fact that like my, like, even though I'm not out in doing as much, I still don't have as much capacity because we are in a tough period right now. And like, it has taken me ages, but I still don't know.

I, I still think I wake up every day, not a hundred percent. Okay. With the fact that I'm not do not where I want to be. And that's just. Like, but that's, I know I'm not alone. Like we're in a pandemic, very few people are where they want to be right now. I know. 

Mel: Yeah. Mentally, emotionally, physically, et cetera. Yeah. 

Ellie: That's so much good stuff. Like, just because it is so many little things. And I think that in this conversation you're right. Like not making it a to-do list other than the one thing, probably being like really start tuning into yourself, really start listening to yourself. Yeah. 

Mel: And that's  that is an uncomfortable thing for us today.

As women in particular, were you still listening to what everybody else tells us that we should do and considering all kinds of other people's opinions because where you've been afraid to not be liked or to shake things up or to actually prioritize ourselves because the idea of prioritizing ourselves for us as often meant, well, that must mean that I'm.

Leaving someone out in some way, whether that's, and then I must be not prioritizing my family or my husband or my partner or my friends or whatever it is. And that's just not true. Right? 

Ellie: Yeah. Absolutely. I think that that's a really important point because you, and I've had conversations about this, but you know, women have a tendency to put everybody else's needs above themselves.

That is the like cliche, you know, mom that you think of is like, she's, she's done. She hasn't even had her back yet today or whatever. She's like, yeah. 

Mel: She like smokes out the car window and screams into a pillow at night. You know, like 

Ellie: that's not the pinnacle of womanhood that we're looking for. It's not, it's not.

So I think it is really important to talk about. All right. What has been your biggest win in business so far? 

Mel: It's such a, it's such a good question. And I'm, I love reflecting on stuff like that. And I think it's so important to me that my impact is always forefront. And so for me, like the wins that I feel most connected to are whenever I see a woman that has been part of something that  I've created do something to change their mindset or their circumstance, or to move forward with their desires or their ideas that has been such, that's always such a big win, I guess, is to see women flourishing.

Right. See them connect with an idea and start to implement that. So that is always a massive, Oh, just like nourishment for me is that, and then also. Something that I'm super proud of is being able to create a way of working for myself with a lot of help without all the help that I mentioned before.

That means that I have lots of space in my life  and can still earn good money and feel like I'm having an impact, but actually be in brave enough to not buy into the busy is the busy-ness is, you know, more valuable because that's such a, it's such a strong muscle of like, that's such a strong tendency.

It's such a strong desire and pole from our like capitalist work horse culture is do more and there'll be more and you'll earn more and you'll have more. And, you know, I quickly have realized is absolutely not what I want. And so to create a life. Where I have lots of help. That means that I have lots of space to do the work that I love makes me really, really happy.

Ellie: Yeah. And we've talked in other episodes of this podcast with people like Ashley Gartland and people like Cassie Widders, which are episodes, you guys will be able to look back on about sort of how people have made that work for them about living. And working in a way, essentially building your work around your life as opposed to the other way around.

And that's something that I totally believe in. And I don't think I did until like relatively recently, like obviously I built my business to be location independent, but to be time independent was something that I hadn't even considered for quite a long time. Yeah. 

Mel: There's a really good episode. I recently listened to.

 And Brene Brown's Dare to Lead podcast on Spotify with Simon Sinek. Oh yes. He's brilliant. Yeah, he is brilliant. And he has written this new book called the infinite game, the infinite game. I think it's called that you'll have to check, but I'm just all about this idea that there is no pinnacle of.

Success or winning, right? Like we're not to win means that the game is finite, that there is a winner. Right. But actually this mindset of, I will always be evolving. I will always be deciding what success feels like for me and my life and what I need that to look like. It's such a, is this like infinite failing of always creating and molding your work and your life to make sense for you?

Yeah, yeah. 

Ellie: Yeah. And having, like, I think that, that's another thing that I was that we were talking with. I'll have to give that episode a listen.  But with Ashley Gartland it was that like, her business has evolved into so many seasons of her life as has yours and as is mine. And it's like, You can shift your business model or your time or your whatever, as you need to.

You know, she went from really enjoying, like going, doing lots and lots of work and being traveling and all this stuff to be like, no, like now I want this like far simpler version and that's a call that you can make. Like, if, if you are at, in a place where you want to be doing all the things and you have the energy and the space for that, that's okay.

You can, you don't have to do that forever. 

Mel: Totally. You can change. And I love that. And I love when I say to women like, okay, well, we can update that. Let's update that story. Let's update that belief. What do you want it to be? No. And the look on their face, like, I can do that. Like, yes, you can do that. I mean, obviously there are all kinds of moving pieces to that, you know, the implementation of those things.

But of course, of course you can. I remember I'll be the. Olympic and U S team soccer player. Women's soccer player talking about how, when she won the gold medal at the Olympics and she was STEM, I think that's what it was. She was standing on the podium and she remembers the feeling of not like elation and not of like PR pride, but actually she, she had this feeling of, Oh shit, I'm going to have to do this again.

How do I, how do I keep up to this? Yeah. And, you know, and realizing that that's just like a fool's errand for us to always have that feeling of. Okay. So  you know, like the goal is to have like a six-figure launch of this product or this program or whatever it is. And then what, you know, like those kinds of things are so arbitrary.

If you are exhausted lonely, You know, all of that. So, you know, let's, let's not put parameters on what success and fulfillment actually are. 

 Ellie: I watched, and it was, it was quite old. Like I watched it a little bit late, but shine on, which is with Reese Witherspoon, she interviews Abby as well as lots of other amazing people that I like America Ferrera, like people I'm just obsessed with.

Right? Yes. And that's just amazing. Walworth watch. But also  Apple fitness has just released this new thing. And so I've been doing Apple fitness cause I got my Apple watch and whatever, but they released this new feature that's like walks with and there are these really high profile people. And so you just have, like, they just have like a conversation.

And one of the ones that I listened to the other day was Sean Mendez. And first off he's 22. I know I'm not that much older than him, but like this guy is really weirdly wise and he's way wiser than I was six years ago. Like, and I guess he's been thrown into some things, you know, being with fame and stuff 15, but yeah, he is like, he's just talking about that same idea, you know, that whole, okay, I've released this record and it's made all this money and then he was having the pressure to do it again and do it again.

And I know almost all artists face that. And he then just decided to just kind of take the pressure off because you can't be creative under that space of like having, yeah. Having to hit this, this quote or this achievement.

Mel:  Of course. Yeah. That's just like death to creativity. Is that pressure for sure.

Ellie: So much goodness. All right. So on the other end, what has been your biggest mistake or learning experience?

Mel:  Okay. LA first of all, you know that as an Enneagram, one, making mistakes is like excrutiatingly painful for us. So I rarely can get all bored, the concept of things, being a mistake. But I think there have been some significant learnings for me over the last number of years.

And one of them genuinely is like, as soon as you can afford it and make room for it to get lots of help in your business. I know that it can be super scary, but I do wish that I had kind of taken that on sooner. And I'm grateful for all the ways that I learned myself. And I'm proud of myself for those things that I was able to kind of navigate.

And those already years doing myself. But I have seen such a freedom and such a, a growth in my work and my. Ability to handle my life by getting help. So that's the first thing is that's been a big learn and an experiences is understanding the difference. It can make having help in my business. Yeah. And then also not believing the silver bullets of the entrepreneur world.

Cause I think that we all need to just come dine about all of this, like build a six-figure blah, blah. And  like all of that kind of hyped up stuff that is so alluring because we're all kind of so tired, we're looking for the silver bullet that might, you know, crack it. Right, right. That's going to propel us into you, feed them and booked out and sold out.

Everything's. And I am so much more committed now to build in a really sustainable, honest, impactful business and realizing that that takes time. There's just no shortcut. There's no shortcut for doing the deep work on yourself or for doing the deep work to make things happen. So one of the things that I have absolutely learned is not to get sidelined by the shiny objects that promise big things when actually the most important sustainable thing for me is to, to go deep with myself and make those things happen in my own time.

Ellie: I think that's something that, yeah, I think a lot of us are learning. I think that that's something that a lot of people in my sphere very much learning too, when you're first starting, you're kind of thinking, okay, yeah, this is going to take a bit, no matter what, then you get to a certain point in and you're like, okay, Like things still seem to be kind of slow and not like, and not just being okay with that being okay with that's just how life happens.

Right. 

Mel: We're not all, why has open? Not called me to be on her show yet. I know. Why have I not been asked to do a Ted talk? 

Ellie: No, I run a podcast. Why am I not on a million podcasts? Like all these things, first off, I'm not asking. I'm too scared. I'll get there. There is that second. Like it's, you know, we're not all, I think first off we're in this culture where you can get anything instantly.

Right? We have Amazon, we have all this other stuff, but then we're also like watching these like overnights, unicorn startups in Silicon Valley have all this funding and still like startup culture. I've worked in startups. Like none of them have any money either. They just keep getting free money until they hopefully get profitable.

And I think it's going to be so easy to forget that, like, it can be so easy to forget. That there is no quick way, you know, there's illusions of quick ways. 

Mel: Of course. Yeah, of course. 

Ellie: All right. So are you working on anything exciting right now? 

Mel: To know I am in such a lovely, like settled season of my business, and that has been super intentional where things are in just a good rhythm.

Our membership is growing slowly and steadily and it's in a really beautiful place. We're always looking at how to continue to improve that, to make it the best place virtually on the internet for women to feel safe and breathe and equipped. And I'm always excited about who's going to join that. Who's going to be part of my group programs and I have the kind of next thing that's happening is that  I'm recruiting for my next accelerator program.

So that's the six month. Program for women who either are like starting a business or want to kind of redesign their business to make it more sustainable, to have more impact and income. And I'm just really excited about that because those groups are just magical for me. The, the first one that you were in was just amazing and it was such a special group.

And this one that I'm currently running that finishes up this month is really beautiful. So  the next one starts in April and I'm really excited for that. And I've just brought out a podcast with my friend, Gabby, purely for fun, literally is not any part of my content strategy for my business at all.

It is called making an effort and it is  really lightened me up because it's such a not planned too much. Not, you know, no, no, there's no like expectations of it. Kind of project and it's just been really lovely to do something fun in that way.  Maybe considering creating a podcast this year in like an assembly kind of podcast this year at some stage.

So yeah, that would be really cool too, but it's really nice to, to fail that the most exciting thing that I'm working on right now is being in a good run. It just feels really good. 

Ellie: Yeah. That's a big focus for me this year too, is just my word for the years flow and I'm just trying to really simplify and stop.

Like I'm either removing friction that outside forces or putting or stop allowing myself to put those things in place myself. Cause I have a tendency to do that. Yes. I love that you're in this really subtle place, but that you're still allowing a little bit of space for creativity and growth. And your podcast is I've binged it yesterday.

The three episodes that are available and I'd love to review. And it just said like, I don't tend to listen to like chat podcasts. I am, again, I don't know if it's my anagram oneness or if it's just me like, but I really like, like actionable or like 

Mel: I want to get something out of this. 

Ellie: Yes. I'm good. I have, yeah.

Otherwise I'm listening to music because I like to sing along and whatever, but your podcast, there's something really lovely about it. Just being really relatable. Like it's, it's like you're watching, you're, you're having a conversation with friends and it's really, really nice. 

Mel: Yeah. Yeah. We're so happy with how it's gone so far and.

Hi, people are kind of saying that. And they're saying, you know, I feel like I'm, I'm in the room with you guys and all of that. And I think that's exactly, exactly what we wanted it to be. Just kind of, because people are so far from their friends at the minute, especially that you can just really relate to the idea that, you know, it's like for Gabby and I, it's just a really nice way for us to every week, get to chat to each other, but we are, we are going to tackle some interesting topics and kind of, yeah.

All of that good stuff as well. 

Ellie: I can't wait. And you guys are doing like pretty well in the charts and things is too. Yeah. 

Mel: We didn't even know. I didn't even know. I didn't even know that one satin until my friend was like, you're in the podcast charts. I was like, what does that mean? 

Ellie: Well, that's amazing.

Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on. It's been really lovely to have this conversation and I'm so excited for like some of my audience to get to know you because you just have so much. To offer.  So tell everyone before we sign off where they can find 

Mel: you. Okay. So you can find me at melwiggins.com.

So there'll be all kinds of ways that you can connect with narrow. You can find out about assembly and the members, community, all of that stuff on Melwiggins.com. And then I also hang out a lot on Instagram.  Mel wagons is my  handle on there and then making an effort. Podcasts is also everywhere that you can listen to podcasts.

Ellie: Cool. And that'll all be in the show notes. So I will put that all on the website, but thank you so much.

Mel:  Thank you. My love has been so gay. Just a bit of a different vibe for you and I, or not liking in like task mode. It's just nice to chat. Yeah.

Ellie: Thank you for listening to the capable collective podcast. I really hope you enjoy this episode and have gotten value from it. If you did, please subscribe on your chosen listening platform. And if you happen to be listening over on Apple podcasts, please take a moment to leave a review. It helps other people to find and trust this podcast.

And it would mean the world to me, this episode was edited by Emily Crosby media. She's amazing to work with, and if you are looking to start a podcast or for some practical media solutions, definitely check her out. Thank you so much. Again, have a great day.